The mystery machine

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
moosepr
Victor Jr
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by moosepr »

Thanks for the info Orchorsol, I will do some more hunting.

2 are broken, so replacing them all was inevitable!

soundgen
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by soundgen »

Orchorsol wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:37 am Assuming you're in the UK - try soundgen, or alternatively Ken Priestly (Holmfirth Antiques), or John Sleep maybe. Hopefully one of them can supply a set of springs that will fit. Soundgen (Mike) is here on the forum. Beware replacing only one of those - the governor may then be out of balance and cause flutter in the speed.
As it is an upright governor you need to be very careful to replace all 3 matched springs and weights otherwise it will be impossible to get to run at the correct speed , even if you get 3 matched springs they may not work with the weights you have

I sold a damaged gear one on Ebay recently for replacing weights and springs together

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gramophone-u ... 7675.l2557
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jamiegramo
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by jamiegramo »

Hi Pete,

Sorry to hear about the governor spring. Something will turn up at reasonable cost just don’t pay the 50 quid that some eBay sellers are asking! Soundgen’s price is much more reasonable.

I thought this might interest you from the 1927 Currys catalogue it shows a very similar machine to yours. It claims to be ‘improved’ so may be a later type version with metal diaphragm soundbox and Garrard motor.

Jamie
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moosepr
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by moosepr »

oooh that looks almost exactly like it!! I probably have the older, version of that then, great find!!

I have been looking on ebay for parts, the closest i can find is this, looks like its the same motor, and would probably get me going
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224429129876

I have had a crazy idea too!! I found someone selling spring steel strip on ebay, so I took a punt on that.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293454252256

In my research it looks like i will need to anneal it to make it soft and workable, then heat treat it and temper it to make it back into springs once its all drilled as needed. Its a touch wider, but a touch thinner so it might work, if it does, i will do a writeup on here so it could help others

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jamiegramo
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by jamiegramo »

I think you may find that even after annealing the metal is still difficult to drill. If you have a Dremel or mini drill you can use a pointed grinding stone to thin the metal where you want to drill. This will make it easier.

A larger grinding stone will even thin the whole surface of the metal down if you experiment with an old hacksaw blade. The pieces could be cut with a thin composition grinding wheel and ends shaped.

I had to do something similar to the flat springs on an exhibition soundbox. Someone had replaced the originals with pieces they had ground out of something like an old hacksaw blade. I was able to enlarge the holes and thin the metal down using grinding wheels until they were more like the originals and then they worked fine (they were too thick and stiff before). If the grinding wheel produces lots of sparks you know you are getting somewhere! Possibly even more sparks before annealing.

moosepr
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by moosepr »

Well attempt number 1 was not ideal!
IMG_20210428_203036.jpg
To be fair, is "as delivered" so fully hardened! Broke 2 drills, and the position of the holes when I finally managed to get it to bite was not ideal.

Going to have a stab at annealing the strips, seems the key is being able to let it cool slowly so the structure has time to form back into its soft state.

I'm also going to 3d print a jig to help hold the drill where it should be!

To be continued.....

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jamiegramo
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by jamiegramo »

moosepr wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:39 pm Well attempt number 1 was not ideal!

IMG_20210428_203036.jpg

To be fair, is "as delivered" so fully hardened! Broke 2 drills, and the position of the holes when I finally managed to get it to bite was not ideal.

Going to have a stab at annealing the strips, seems the key is being able to let it cool slowly so the structure has time to form back into its soft state.

I'm also going to 3d print a jig to help hold the drill where it should be!

To be continued.....
Did you try a pointed grinding stone on a mini drill? This should create a little recess in the area you want to drill. Sometimes it’s creates a local hotspot and anneals the area you want to drill.

I’m fascinated by your 3D printing!
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jamiegramo
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by jamiegramo »

I remember that forum member ‘walser’, Pedro, used a dentist diamond drill. Should the steel you have prove to be unsuitable you can always send him one of the original springs and he can send you copies.

viewtopic.php?uid=1043&f=11&t=32196&start=10

moosepr
Victor Jr
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by moosepr »

I was talking to a guy last night and he said it will probably punch pretty well. I tested on my scraps, using a broken drill and it shows promise
IMG_20210429_074748.jpg
on the left is the blunt end of a broken drill, on the right is the sharper but more irregular end of the broken drill. Some careful shaping of the end of the drill could actually turn it into a nice punch. I also tested cutting the strip using a chisel, and it snips it nice and cleanly

I have designed a quick jig that should allow me to clamp a single strip to some scrap wood, so I can accurately drill/punch the holes, and then pop the ends flush with a chisel
unknown.png

soundgen
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Re: The mystery machine

Post by soundgen »

All very admirable , but even if you make 3 good springs , as you say earlier the spring steel is thinner than the original as i said before

"As it is an upright governor you need to be very careful to replace all 3 matched springs and weights otherwise it will be impossible to get to run at the correct speed , even if you get 3 matched springs they may not work with the weights you have "

if you make the springs the weights will be too heavy and it won't run correctly and you will then need to modify or make new weights , best of luck hope it works but you would have been better off buying the eBay machine !

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