Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
nostalgia
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Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by nostalgia »

I came across this table grand two days ago, and even if I try avoiding buying more table grands, since I absolutely have no room for them, I could not resist this machine, due to the Exhibition soundbox that was attached. This is the Copenhagen version of the Exhibition soundbox, and according to a good source in my area, the soundbox also was made in Copenhagen at The Gramophone Company's location there. For quite some time I have been on the look out for such a soundbox, since they are both hard to find and interesting to collect. I have from my source also received information that The Gramophone Company were represented in Copenhagen for a period, but I don't really know any details about this myself at the time of writing this. If anyone can add information, or correct me, it will of course be great !

The table grand has a home made white label inside, and I believe it says: Model 126.

I really need help trying to identify parts in this machine. I have from my good source some months ago, received information, that during WW1 parts were hard to access from the UK, and because of it, some machines made in Copenhagen were equipped with Thorens motors, and brakes and other components were made in Copenhagen to the best of their knowledge and ability. I don't know if this is such a machine, since I have never seen such a machine before, and I also know they are not exactly abundant in the market.

Does someone recognize this motor. Is it an early Thorens? Even the spring barrels are nickel plated...swiss quality. I had to google the inscription in French on top, but I understand it only means "trademark". However, the cross and horn close to the words, makes me think it is Swiss made. I am sure someone recognizes the logo, even if it is old.
The manual brake and speed control, reminds of HMV parts from the same era, but they are not exactly similarly made, so maybe these parts also are from Switzerland, I really can't say myself. (I however know that some brakes and metal parts also were made in Copenhagen during a certain period, I have seem some of brake parts earlier on on one Copenhagen made machine that had a HMV motor, and these parts reminded much of HMV parts, but still had small discprepancies from the HMV parts. )
Attachments
Motor.jpg
Motor board.jpg
Motor 5.jpg
Motor 4.jpg
Motor 3.jpg
Motor 2.jpg
Logo and model number.jpg
Inside.jpg
Horn.jpg
Exhibition.jpg
Die Stimme Seines Herrn.jpg
Brake and speed control.jpg

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jamiegramo
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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by jamiegramo »

An interesting machine and I like the top!

The trademark on the Swiss motor is Paillard.

It’s true that during WW1, Deutsche Grammophone, who were cut off from their supply of parts from Britain, used other makers parts. Copenhagen would have relied on DG for machines and parts.

Are those Philips screw heads in the lid support? :o You must change them.

nostalgia
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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you Jamie, I should have recognized the Pailllard logo, I already have a Paillard portable with that logo on it.
And yes, the lid support has obviously received some repair at some stage, and the Philips screw heads must definitely go, it was the first thing that caught my attention whan having a closer look at the machine this morning ! :shock:

Update: Photo shows what was now found inside the horn section of the gramophone. They for sure will be put back into their home. :)
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april 2021 063.jpg

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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by epigramophone »

A few significant dates in HMV's Scandinavian operations :

13 June 1903. Danish Branch opened as Skandinavisk Grammophon A/S.
19 October 1903. Swedish Branch registered as Skandinavisk Grammophon A.B.
July 1910. Royal Warrant granted by the King of Sweden.
February 1935. Norweigian factory opened.

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jamiegramo
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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by jamiegramo »

nostalgia wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:55 am Thank you Jamie, I should have recognized the Pailllard logo, I already have a Paillard portable with that logo on it.
And yes, the lid support has obviously received some repair at some stage, and the Philips screw heads must definitely go, it was the first thing that caught my attention whan having a closer look at the machine this morning ! :shock:

Update: Photo shows what was now found inside the horn section of the gramophone. They for sure will be put back into their home. :)
Old celluloid headed dolls! But the cloths look like they were washed yesterday. They will muffle the sound if you put them back.

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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by Orchorsol »

To my eyes, there looks to be a majority of fresh wood in that case and horn... Almost as if someone had an original lid and doors, and fabricated everything else to fit around them (using some pieces with polished, slightly distressed surfaces, such as the motorboard). Apologies if I'm wrong...
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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by nostalgia »

The old celluloid headed dolls, I will put them next to the horn in a plastic bag, taped to the side of the cabinet, plenty of space there. And yes, they look like new, again due to the reason given in the next few paragraphs:

Orchorsol, I understand well your views. It is however happening over and over here, that very old horn gramophones look like new inside, due to our very dry climate. The same can be seen on HMV portables from my area, hardly any rust at all, and if rust is found, I instantly know that the machine has lived its life in Western or Northern Norway, where there is much more humidity than in Eastern Norway, where I reside.

That said, I can't give any guarantees that this machine is all original, but I feel myself it may well be original, due to the fact that I know HMV in Copenhagen made machines with Thorens/Paillard motors, and also manufactured brakes and speed indicators etc, when these parts were not available from Germany/ UK, during WW1. The cabinets also then was made in Denmark, and the shortage of supplies and small facilities, could end with machines like this, I presume...Still it could of course be interesting to try to verify that the machine is original, so I will anyway bring it to my old gramophone friend during the next weeks. He is in his seventies and know almost everything there is to know about HMV's activities in Scandinavia etc. The soundbox is also correct for the period. According to the seller, the machine has been in the family for many decades, and belonged to her father, who died 18 years ago.

nostalgia
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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by nostalgia »

Update: I have already received valid information that this is an unmolested Danish gramophone production under the "Die Stimme seines Herrn" trademark. My source, has a list of ( including this machine) 23 horn models, 2 table grands, and one floor model made in Copenhagen, that are still in existence. (He also says they are also all listed in a Danish catalog from 1916.)

For reference, I will post some additional photos when the machine is restored in full in a day or two.

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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by nostalgia »

As always, adding some photos after finished work. The only thing missing now is finding some wood filler with approximate similar color to the motor board, to apply close to the lid hange. Philips Screw heads holding the hange, have been substituted with HMV screws.
A shiny gramophone, for sure. :geek:
Attachments
april 2021 011.jpg
april 2021 010.jpg
april 2021 009.jpg
april 2021 008.jpg
april 2021 007.jpg

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Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by Marco Gilardetti »

Orchorsol wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:28 pm To my eyes, there looks to be a majority of fresh wood in that case and horn... Almost as if someone had an original lid and doors, and fabricated everything else to fit around them (using some pieces with polished, slightly distressed surfaces, such as the motorboard). Apologies if I'm wrong...
I have to second these sentiments, I'm afraid...

The "horn" seems having been made few minutes ago, the head of the nails is shiny as if they were brand new. The whole top board seems of a different type of wood. Actually, I've never seen HMV tabletop gramophones made with corner pillars, and also the base with rounded corners is new me. Just as the half-cylindrical profile that hides the gap between the front doors - never seen any, looks contemporary stuff bought at a local DIY center.

More in general, were tabletop units with side-mounted gooseneck tonearms ever produced? I have never seen any before. Even in the HMV 100 portable despite pressing size constraints, the tonearm was mounted on the center.

Again, apologies if I'm in turn wrong.

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