Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
nostalgia
Victor III
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by nostalgia »

It is interesting when a machine stir up different opinions, and I don't mind it at all, on the contrary really. I only paid €50 for the machine, and simply bought it for the soundbox only, and an added extra was the double spring Paillard motor in excellent condition. As told I showed the machine to my old friend, who have been collecting for more than 50 years, and also written some books, and he is still of the opinion that the machine is genuine, but after resending him photos in better resolution, he now says the machine is not made in Denmark, but in Germany, because of the " Die stimme...." logo. This trademark was too blurry on the first photos I sent him. He says the soundbox must have been changed on a later occasion, still the same period soundbox, but a Danish one instead of the original German Exhibition. His views on the machine are as follows:

"This is a HMV machine for sale only inside Germany, and not made for export, because of Polyphonwerke's "takeover" of DGAG. It looks like a transitional model, and is made in 1919-1920. Due to lack of parts after WW1, a swiss motor has been used."

Myself I can only say that i know for sure that the machine has not been tampered with the last 30 years or so, since it simply has been stored away since the owner died 18 years ago, and the owner only used it for decoration, according to his daughter. I was told by the daughter that her father bought it in an antique shop in Oslo, and after cheching more on that, there were only 2 shops in Oslo selling antique gramophones around the time this machine most probably was bought, and they both were specialist shops. There has never been a market for repros etc. here , the market is simply too small, and the general attitude of selling something fake was simply most non existent if we go back 30 years in time, so if this machine has been made in a backyard, it must have happened quite a few decades ago, and the one who did it, would really also have had a hard job too finding parts for it.

That said, IF the machine is not genuine, one can still ponder where the top had its origin, since it looks very different than HMV tops. I am also adding some photos of a Polyphon table top I serviced last summer, a machine made a few years later, under the Polyphon logo.

Regarding the wood on the machine we discuss. It has two wood types, the motor board and the upper part of the top lid has the same color and type of wood, and this wood can also be found on the lower base, under the doors, even if it is a bit hard to see on the photos.
We maybe will never know the whole truth about this machine. It was labelled Table Grand Model 126 by the owner, probably has he received this information in the shop where he bought the machine.

Photos of the Polyphon table model, added, also with a wooden horn. Pay also attention to the side mounted gooseneck tonearm, so yes, they exist, Marco:;)
Attachments
Polyphon table top4.jpg
Polyphon table top4.jpg (57.27 KiB) Viewed 90 times
Polyphon table top3.jpg
Polyphon table top3.jpg (56.72 KiB) Viewed 90 times
Polyphon table top2.jpg
Polyphon table top2.jpg (60.24 KiB) Viewed 90 times
Polyphon table top1.jpg
Polyphon table top1.jpg (95.42 KiB) Viewed 90 times

User avatar
Steve
Victor IV
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:40 pm
Location: London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, New York, Evesham

Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by Steve »

To respond to a few points made here:

Firstly, HMV did make cabinets with solid square pillars to the corners: the No. 8 and 9 Table Grand are early examples of this.

The molding which covers the gap in the doors is typical of German machines of the period.

The tonearm left hand mounting is correct for this variant.

As others have said the internal horn is not original. It looks to have been remade 40 years ago, possibly due the original being eaten away by insect infestation, a common continental problem with cheap softwoods or ply. It is definitely new looking and lacks the finesse of an original period detail.

The motorboard does not look right either. Why are there more fixing holes in the right hand side compared to the left? Normally fixings are balanced out on both sides. I think its basically a correct original machine which has been heavily repaired and restored a few decades ago.

nostalgia
Victor III
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

Re: Die Stimme seines Herrn...oddity table grand

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you for valuable inputs, it is much appreciated, since this is the best way to learn more!
I was able to find three more photos on my mobile camera, that I took while restoring the machine. It shows the wooden horn, and that it has been repaired at some stage, and this repair must have been carried out some decades ago, because of the sellers story around the gramophone. Maybe the celluloid dolls were put inside the machine when the repairs were done, hard to know of course. I agree that the horn lacks some finesse, but if it is because of past repairs, or if the whole horn have been substituted, I will abstain from having a strong opinion about. The problem area when I opened it was the area around the horn and the wooden block close to the metal tube. This area seemed to have been re glued also in the past, and I had to glue it again before reinstalling the horn.
About the motor board, I keep my opinion that it may be original, since it has the exact color as the upper part of the top lid and the base, but I am very prepared to be wrong about this. There is actually only three fixing holes at both the left and right side of the motorboard, the spot close to the lid stay is a small mark and not a hole, this can be seen clearly if maximizing the uploaded photo of the motor board.

On the new photos we can see also the horn itself has been repaired in the past, by adding some tape to cover a crack in the veneer.
Attachments
april 2021 029.jpg
april 2021 025.jpg
april 2021 024.jpg

Post Reply