Another table grand, is this HMV model 125?

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nostalgia
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Another table grand, is this HMV model 125?

Post by nostalgia »

Everything seems to come in pairs lately, and here we have another table grand in mahogany. It came up for sale yesterday, and I could again not resist it, because of the HMV No2 Soundbox, that I still not own, and also because the model is not what we see too often, also because of the feet. I bought it after a quick check in the HMG book, and to me, it looks like model 125? It has a goose neck tone arm, speed indicator, green felt, and a 32 double spring motor. The horn can be seen on the photos.

The only detail that to my eyes mismatch the photo of the Model 125 in the HMG book is the door knobs, they are of wood on my machine, while the one pictured in the book has metal door knobs.

We can see this machine was originally sold in Cardiff, but has later lived most of its life in Riga, Latvia, before it ended in Oslo, Norway some years ago.

The machine is right out of the car this morning, no basic cleaning etc yet.
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epigramophone
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Re: Another table grand, is this HMV model 125?

Post by epigramophone »

Minor details such as door knobs did not always remain the same throughout a model's production run.
There was probably a transitional period when either metal or wooden knobs were fitted.

Dale, Forty & Co were one of the UK's major music and gramophone retailers. They were in business from 1873 to 1961.
I wrote an article about them which was published in the Summer 2020 CLPGS magazine.

nostalgia
Victor III
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Re: Another table grand, is this HMV model 125?

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you, Roger. From your response I understand that this is actually a model 125. According to the HMG book it was manufactured in 2294 copies in mahogany ( If I understand the book correctly), so I will maybe keep this machine. I also have a set of metal door knobs from a unsalvageable early HMV table grand, that can be fitted to this machine. It looks quite impressive really. I also received an Odeon sortiment needle box with the machine, along with about 120 records so it was well worth the trip yesterday evening, even if I was close to abort the purchase due to a recent overflood of machines coming in my direction lately, that I have not been able to resist buying.

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Inigo
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Re: Another table grand, is this HMV model 125?

Post by Inigo »

Later models 126 and 127 were new style gramophones, listen to the bass era, swan neck tonearm, no4 soundbox and new long expo tin horn, but the outer box was the same and the overall appearance, except for the new tonearm and soundbox. Same motor too. My French 126/7 (?) also has the wooden door knobs. One was missing, and I made a replica by hand, out of a wooden stick, using a knife and sandpaper.. Then I stained it with Judea,a bit of shellac, et voilá... It looks better than the original! The difference between 126 and 127? Maybe the later production and an auto brake added? Mine is of the 'wide fork' type, which you set for each record. My model is French, so I don't know if they departed somewhat from the UK standard. French Gramophone had their own idiosyncrasies....
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Re: Another table grand, is this HMV model 125?

Post by Oedipus »

The 126 and 127 have different cases - not immediately obvious, but it's clear if you put them side by side. 127 has thinner sides, a slightly squatter lid moulding, and different doors - they are pivoted within the jambs, as on 109 etc, not hinged at the corners as on the 126. The bead round the top of the case is removed, and the lid stay is different, too. But it does not surprise me to find wood door knobs on a late 125.
The hand-set automatic brake on the 125 continued into the early 126, but later ones would have the No 2 brake (hand-released but self-setting, worked by eccentric run-out groove. 127s would probably have the later version (No 3), which was released automatically by swinging the tone-arm to the right, but the change would not necessarily have come at exactly the same time as the change from 126 to 127.

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Inigo
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Re: Another table grand, is this HMV model 125?

Post by Inigo »

Then the no2 brake is the wide fork I'm referring to. It works with any fast end groove, doesn't need exactly an eccentric groove at the end. It doesn't work with the backwards movement of the tonearm, as later style no3.. No2 works when the tonearm reaches the trigger lever, just 3mm before the point you've set the trigger lever. So it works on any fast groove that trips the tonearm towards the label.
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Re: Another table grand, is this HMV model 125?

Post by Oedipus »

If by 'wide fork' you mean the brake with a little knob on the right-hand 'prong' of the fork, that is No 1 Autobrake. It has to be set by hand for each record (hence the little knob), although once set for records with a fast run out it would work for most of them. However, although such records were common in Germany from an early date, in the UK very few records had a fast run-out at that time, and the last groove was concentric, its diameter determined by the length of the recording. That is why the brake needed to be set for each record. In practice, admittedly when the brakes are around 100 years old, getting it to switch off at exactly the right moments is an art -- either it halts the record before the music has finished, or it doesn't work at all!

When No 2 autobrake was introduced in 1926, it was operated by the eccentric run-out that was then appearing on HMV records. It still had to be released by a hand lever at the beginning of the record, although for records without the eccentric groove you could stop the motor by picking up the soundbox and giving it a twiddle to the right. (This brake incorporates a rack-and-pawl which gives an audible 'tick' at intervals as the soundbox approaches the centre of the record.)

No 3 was introduced towards the end of 1927, and did away with the ticking rack, as well as being self-releasing. (The rack was still there, but the pawl was kept clear of it until it was time to engage it and stop the turntable.) To set the turntable in motion, you simply pulled the soundbox to the extreme right. Early examples still had the hand-lever, although it was not needed; after a short time, it was cut off, although its stub remained as part of the mechanism under the turntable.

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