The Evolution of the HMV 101

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
gramophoneshane
Victor VI
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by gramophoneshane »

Inigo wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:18 am Yes, yes... I didn't realize it :D
Sorry for my perorata (Spanish name for a loooong speech with not too much sense...) :D
Lol, don't worry about it. I do that all the time.
In my case though, I think it's just me getting old and senile :lol:

epigramophone
Victor Monarch Special
Posts: 5204
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Personal Text: An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by epigramophone »

Green was the last colour to be added to the 101 range, in late 1928/early 1929. It is less commonly found than blue or red, but is not as rare as brown or grey.
The winding handle clips were moved from the motor board to the lid because there was no longer room for them when the autobrake was fitted.

User avatar
Inigo
Victor VI
Posts: 3753
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:51 am
Personal Text: Keep'em well oiled
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by Inigo »

Edited, as per Phono48 info, thanks!

I believe that they came out in this order, correct me if I'm wrong... Kind of guessing game!

1926? Black
1927 Red leather de luxe, crocodile brown and snake grey, also crocodile blue.
19?? Blue, brown, grey and red rexine
19?? Green rexine
Last edited by Inigo on Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Inigo

Phono48
Victor IV
Posts: 1313
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by Phono48 »

The lid, with it's corner handle storage socket, if original to the case, comes from one of the later models, but the case clasp on the front is definitely from an early version, although the Pakawa handle fixing on the side are also indicate a later one! To make this into a true green 101 will be a formidable task!. You first need to decide which green model you are aiming to re-create, the early version with the handle clips on the motor board, or the later one with the automatic brake, and the handle storage clip and socket in the lid. It would be easier to make it the early version, as you already have the arm, soundbox and all the internal fittings.The later version would need an arm with autobrake lever, the autobrake itself, a clip to go with the handle socket in the lid, and a turntable with an autobrake fitting. As it is, to make it an early model, you need (all in green, which could be difficult) a two-part motorboard to suit the existing motor, a turntable mat, a carrying handle, and possibly a record pocket, as the one you have appears to be black underneath the pale green paint, but I could well be wrong about that? Also, you need the two end fittings for the carrying handle and a winding hole escutcheon. Good luck!!

Barry
Last edited by Phono48 on Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Phono48
Victor IV
Posts: 1313
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by Phono48 »

According to HMG, the de-luxe red leather version was introduced at the same time as the blue, brown and grey crocodile in 1927.

Barry

User avatar
Inigo
Victor VI
Posts: 3753
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:51 am
Personal Text: Keep'em well oiled
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by Inigo »

Original post edited. So we have:

1926? Black
1927 Red leather de luxe, crocodile brown and snake
grey, also crocodile blue.
19?? Blue, brown, grey and red rexine
19?? Green rexine
Inigo

shoshani
Victor I
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by shoshani »

I also don't have either my HMV or PPG books handy here in my office, but in its six year life cycle the 101 did indeed go through numerous changes. The latch evolved, as did the escutcheon, and at one brief point in the late 1920s the lid contained a projecting cover that fitted over the escutcheon when the lid was closed, in a manner similar to the HMV 102-D MOS model.

The initial version had a front wind, which changed to an angled side wind within a year or two, as I recall. Likewise the winding handle was first fitted onto clips that rested it over the open horn, before those were moved to a position near the tonearm. The final version, probably circa 1930 or so, had the winding handle held in the lid, a feature that propagated to the 102.

If I understand the table in HMG correctly*, the penultimate version of the 101 used a 270-C motor, before reverting to the 59, perhaps the longest-tenured motor for the 101, in the final version. That final version also had chrome plated fittings, as opposed to the nickel plating used up until then. Both had an automatic brake, which unlike the 102 was not supplemented with a manual brake or a means to disengage the automatic brake. (As a general rule I much prefer the look and sound of the 101 to the 102, but in the case of having both brakes and having their use be selectable, the 102 has a slight design advantage over the 101.)

And as mentioned earlier, all four versions of the HMV No 4 soundbox were used on the 101, sequentially. Two were all brass, one having the "His Master's Voice" designation inside the backplate, readable through the mica, and the later one having it machined into the back instead; a third one had a brass front but the backplate was cast pot metal, and the final iteration was all pot metal front and back.

*Mr. Proudfoot, co-author of HMG, is a member here, and I don't want to misquote his own book in front of him....

User avatar
Inigo
Victor VI
Posts: 3753
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:51 am
Personal Text: Keep'em well oiled
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by Inigo »

I share your opinion that the later (not the first) 102 auto brake was the best of all!

EDIT 3 july
I refer to the brake acting on the turntable sliding sleeve, a feature also shared by the autobrake of the 101s. This, in comparison to the big machines which have the autobrake acting on the turntable rim. The sliding sleeve solution seems to me much more elegant. I wish I could adapt one of those brakes to my 194... but maybe it wasn't adopted for the big machines because the sliding sleeve may not operate so effectively on the heavier 12" turntable, who knows!
Last edited by Inigo on Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Inigo

Oedipus
Victor II
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:59 am

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by Oedipus »

It may or may not be the case that the last 101 reverted to the 59 motor; I never found any reference to a version with chrome fittings and 59 motor in the Archive, and there was no gap in the suffix letters between L and N, so I gave it a hypothetical 'P'. The model was at the end of its productions run, which was extended by delays in finalising the 102, and that is probably why some 101s have 270 motors. Perhaps for the final batch, when 102s would have been entering production, they decided to use up the remaining 59 motors. That version (59 motor and chrome fittings) is not uncommon. Some of the versions of the 101 seem to have been in production at the same time -- it was just a matter of available lid catches etc at a time when sales were booming.

User avatar
Inigo
Victor VI
Posts: 3753
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:51 am
Personal Text: Keep'em well oiled
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: The Evolution of the HMV 101

Post by Inigo »

The 102 is marvelous... but I find the 101 more aesthetically attractive. Perhaps it is the look of the thin sinuous tonearm with that comparatively huge no4 mica soundbox... I don't know.
Besides that, the 102 has a terrible tracking, compared to the 101. This must be because of the shorter tonearm and distance to the spindle.
A 101, I haven't tried; but a tabletop 127 with the 5a or the Meltrope soundboxes sounds terrific, although it is a bit of too powerful sound for that size of horn. Anyway, now my daily machine for listening in my study is this, with the Meltrope iii. Pity that just yesterday one spring broke in the middle of a song , and tomorrow I'll have to substitute it. :o
Inigo

Post Reply