HMV Model 130

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
Menophanes
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HMV Model 130

Post by Menophanes »

I have often seen the His Master's Voice Model 130 described as the best table gramophone ever made, but this model usually sells for over £200 in Britain and I could not justify the outlay to myself. Recently, however, I found an oak-cased example on eBay for little more than half this price. (The listing did identify the model; I surely cannot have been alone in recognising it from the photographs, but it seems that nobody else who did so was interested enough to bid against me.) The machine, sold by a reputable British charity, was not ideally packed – the box was solid enough, but the machine was free to slide about inside it – and it emerged with the back panel of the lid completely detached and one corner of the case split. Fortunately I have been able to repair most of the damage; there is still a slight gap in the left-hand corner of the lid (that is why the front of the lid is significantly off-centre, as my pictures will show), but once I have remedied this I will have a very fair-looking machine apart from the dreadful carrot-coloured grille-cloth and some rather vicious gouges on the top. The motor and sound-box (this being a 5B and so presumably a later substitute) are both excellent, and the machine has fully justified its reputation in performance; it is clean, well-balanced and not too loud, and it picks up some deep orchestral tones – soft drum-beats and double-bass pizzicati – which I have never been able to hear before; this is exactly what I hoped to find.

The main problem is with the automatic brake. One point is that the pad, when applied, only just brushes against the turntable; I presume this is simply because it is too worn to make proper contact. The other is that, while the mechanism springs into the 'on' position when the tone-arm is swung inboard, it does not disengage when the movement is reversed. I have not yet found an answer to this, and so as a short-term solution I have disconnected the brake assembly from the tone-arm and am relying on a wooden wedge (half a clothes-peg, to be exact) to stop the revolutions.

One thing that surprises me is that the tracking position overshoots the radius-line of the turntable by about a centimetre, as shown in the third image. Is this as it should be? Could the change from the original 5A box have led to this anomaly? The angle of the sound-box seems to be correct. (I am not interested in reverting to a 5A box as I understand that this unit tends to have a rather fierce and 'bright' tone, and that is something I do not care for at all.) As I say the gramophone plays very well, but I am concerned that if this arrangement is not correct it may throw an excessive strain on the outer wall of the record grooves.

The gramophone came with a box containing 24 records, all of which survived the journey. They include a 1921 Columbia (U.K.) record on which Richard Strauss conducts the London Symphony Orchestra in the waltz sequence from his Rosenkavalier; I would gladly have paid £10 for this alone.

Oliver Mundy.
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Oedipus
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by Oedipus »

I wouldn't worry about the tracking; this does vary on the 5A soundbox models, and this is an early 130 (shown by the large base flange of the tone-arm). The 5B sound box will have made no difference.

I can't quite follow what you say about the brake (except that yes, wear on the pad will affect it, but can often be cured by simply working the pad further forward in the tab which holds it.) In operation, swinging the tone-arm outboard (i.e to the start of the record) will release the brake, and it is applied at the end of the record by the reverse action of an eccentric run-out groove, found on HMV records from about 1925 onwards (but not on your 1921 Columbia!). If this is not happening, the trigger attached to the operating arm is presumably not responding, either because some well-meaning idiot has put oil on the brake mechanism in the past, or because the friction joint on which the operating arm pivots is not tight enough. That can be adjusted by slightly bending down the three 'legs' on 'Isle-o'-Man' washer at the top of the joint. (To apply the brake on a record without an eccentric runout, simply lift the tone-arm and swing it slightly to the right.)

One other, small point; the lid stay has been installed upside down; the convex side of the arms should be facing forwards.

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emgcr
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by emgcr »

I do not have an HMV 130 but do possess a Model 150 which may be similar for the purposes of this discussion ? There seems to be little difference between the 5A and 5B soundboxes, both of which produce a positive overlap just shy of ¼" with ½" needle projection. This overlap is reduced to practically zero with a needle projection of ⅜". The distance between tonearm bearing centre and motor spindle centre is about 9" and offset is approximately 1.0". Reference to the attached tables will show that the recommended overlap should, in fact, be negative in this instance at minus 0.35" ie an "underlap" or, put another way, the needle point should fall short of the spindle centre by about a third of an inch. Hopefully you will be able to assess your geometry by reference to the tables in the same way. The needle point should lie on the disc for these purposes to obtain accurate values.
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Menophanes
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by Menophanes »

Thank you, Oedipus and emgcr!

It did strike me that my needles were projecting unusually far from the holder on the sound-box. It may be that something – perhaps the stump of a broken wood or fibre needle – is wedged in the bottom of the triangular-section tube. I have got another good 5B somewhere; if I can find this I shall use it to check the exposed length of needle, and if there is indeed an obstruction in the present box and I cannot clear this, I can fit the other one instead. Meanwhile I shall study the brake mechanism further. It certainly does not look as if anything is corroded or seized. I did have a vague sense that there was something odd about the lid-stay.

I have put the 130 straight into my new house, which I am moving into by slow and protracted stages (I have a vast quantity of items, including 78s and cylinders as well as literally thousands of books, which I cannot trust anybody to handle except myself), so that I can only work on it on the two or three days each week when I go there.

Apart from its virulent colour, the grille-cloth seems to be of a much closer weave than the original, to judge by other examples which have been discussed here in the past.

Oliver Mundy.

epigramophone
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by epigramophone »

Other collectors have told me that the best chance of obtaining a reasonable match for the original grille cloth will be from a supplier of vintage radio components.

Good luck with your house move. You are unusually fortunate in being able to do it gradually. For most people moving house is a very stressful "out of the old and into the new" scramble on the same day.

Menophanes
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by Menophanes »

Thank you, Roger, for your helpful tip and your good wishes. I was indeed fortunate in that a family legacy enabled me to buy before selling; otherwise my wife and I, with our respective hoards (not forgetting the four cats), would have had to give up the idea altogether.

The brake mechanism seems to have rectified itself. I cannot claim any credit for this, but I have managed to reposition the brake-pad so that this also functions, if rather weakly.

There is in fact no obstruction in the needle-tube of the sound-box, since my second 5B shows exactly the same length of needle. I could perhaps use a Meltrope III instead, this being smaller in diameter and having a deeper needle-tube; however I am in two minds about this, since the Meltrope works particularly well on another machine of mine.

Oliver Mundy.

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nostalgia
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by nostalgia »

Oliver, I have been reading your post closely, about your problem with the autobrake. I believe you have the No 3 autobrake, the same autobrake that was found on one of my earlier HMV 109 table grands.
I had a problem with this autobrake when restoring the 109 last autumn, and at that time Inigo helped me out, understanding what caused the problem. You can read this thread, and see if this solves your problem too, since after reading your post, it sounds like you may have the same problem as I had, that the autobrake is staying in, or jumping back into its ON position even when the tone arm is in its resting position and the autobrake should be in OFF position.
I also have a model 130 in a storage locker, but that machine is not yet serviced, however I belive the autobrake on the 130 and 109 are similar ( no 3), after checking the HMG book.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=46852&p=277237&hil ... 09#p277237

You've got yourself a good machine there, and congratulations too.
Good luck!
Martin

Menophanes
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by Menophanes »

Thank you, Martin. My brake (which, as you may have read by now, has decided to work after all) does appear identical to that of the 109 in Marco's video. I have a 109 of my own and can compare the brakes directly once either I have photographed both or both gramophones are in the same house!

Oliver Mundy.

leels1
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by leels1 »

Try the Meltrope III on it. I use it in my HMVs now nearly all the time and hardly bother with the 5a/b.

I was pleasantly surprised how it sounds on a 130.

Menophanes
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Re: HMV Model 130

Post by Menophanes »

leels1 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:15 pm Try the Meltrope III on it. I use it in my HMVs now nearly all the time and hardly bother with the 5a/b.

I was pleasantly surprised how it sounds on a 130.
Thank you for the suggestion. I tried it yesterday, only to find that the box would not fit onto the end of the tone-arm even with the compression-ring completely unscrewed; the red rubber isolator was merely being squeezed down into the body of the box, and I felt there was danger of serious damage if I persisted. And yet you have clearly been able to do this. Obviously I am missing some point, but what can it be? Is it possible that the Meltropes were manufactured with different isolators for different gauges of tone-arm, and that mine happens to have been tailored for the narrower 1925–1929 type?

Oliver Mundy.

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