HMV Table Top Model

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
igic
Victor Jr
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HMV Table Top Model

Post by igic »

Here's an HMV table top model that I found at an antique store. Any idea which model and its worth? Thanks.
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nostalgia
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by nostalgia »

It is difficult to tell what model it is when you have uploaded only one photo where the doors are open, since the doors and door knobs vary on these hornless models and must be seen to identify the machine. It is also necessary to see the motorboard on top of the machine, with brakes and speed controls, since these also vary. Many hornless models were manufactured in this period, and from the type of decal found on the machine, it was most probably manufactured between 1911-23, using the HMG book as a reference.
Regarding the value of the machine, it is more the value you put in it yourself to entertain your life. The flower decals put on the doors by a previous owner, does not heigthen the monetary value, quite the opposite. I my area, continental Europe, hornless models are found from € 20-50, but they may be more expensive in the UK, again also depending on the general state of the machine, and what model it is.

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Steve
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by Steve »

Sadly these are near worthless in the UK. They fall through the net somewhat, being less ornamental, practical and worse sounding than the equivalent Table Grands and they have none of the visual appeal of the external horn machines they replaced.

I agree that the photo does not help identification but I'd guess its a Style 1 from 1920 by the molding.

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mrrgstuff
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by mrrgstuff »

Steve wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:49 pm Sadly these are near worthless in the UK.
Whilst I am happy to agree that within the collecting community in the UK, these are amongst the least desirable machines, it doesn't mean they are cheap or plentiful in the wild. I have looked in a good few antique shops and many car boot sales and have yet to come across a machine of this type. Based on the photos, if I did see it in an antiques shop, then I doubt it would be particularly cheap and wouldn't be surprised if it was the wrong side of £100. There is also the soundbox to consider as the closest I have got is an earlyish Exhibition which cost me just over £60 in a antiques shop. Hardly a bargain, but not stupid money either. I'm sure if the dealer had had the rest of the machine it would have been priced considerably more. Just my opinion ...

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Steve
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by Steve »

I don't disagree about prices in antique shops or the perceived scarcity of gramophones if you solely use the trade in general as a guide.

In my experience the antique trade are totally disinterested and dismissive of gramophones. In 30 years of collecting I can count on both hands the total number of gramophones I've seen in non specialist shops. Most have been overpriced tatty, broken or incomplete portables.

If you look on Ebay, which is certainly no barometer of the market, at any given time there are more machines being added to the never ending auction than that number of machines I've seen in the wild over 30 years.

Clearly the stock of machines is surprisingly high; it's the trade in general which steers well clear of them. What that tells you about the market for resale I'm not sure. Don't get me started about the dismal show of Ebay in general.........the sellers who squander 12 photo shots on the inside of a portable amongst one of my many pet peeves! :roll:

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mrrgstuff
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by mrrgstuff »

Steve wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:33 am In my experience the antique trade are totally disinterested and dismissive of gramophones. In 30 years of collecting I can count on both hands the total number of gramophones I've seen in non specialist shops. Most have been overpriced tatty, broken or incomplete portables.

If you look on Ebay, which is certainly no barometer of the market, at any given time there are more machines being added to the never ending auction than that number of machines I've seen in the wild over 30 years.
Yes, I think you make some very good points. Probably Ebay is a much better indicator of what is actually out there for sale, and there are plenty of less desirable machines which go round and round without selling, as the owners perceive they are worth far more than clearly what the market is prepared to pay.

I think also that some of these machines fail to sell due to the requirement for the buyer to collect which will massively restrict the number of potential buyers.

Oedipus
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by Oedipus »

Yes, it's a Model 1, circa 1920-22. It is not a 'table top' (there is no such thing); it is a 'hornless' model.

igic
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by igic »

All of my Victors are outside horn models. But this was the first. HMV I had ever seen in the US. It plays quite well, and I paid $200 for it. Is that about what it’s worth? I thought the exhibition reproducer alone was worth something.

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mrrgstuff
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by mrrgstuff »

igic wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:44 pm All of my Victors are outside horn models. But this was the first. HMV I had ever seen in the US. It plays quite well, and I paid $200 for it. Is that about what it’s worth? I thought the exhibition reproducer alone was worth something.
I'm not going to be the best person to answer this, but in a similar store in the UK I would not be surprised to see it priced at the equivalent of $200. I paid $80-90 equivalent in a UK antiques shop for an Exhibition. They are possibly a little cheaper online. Personally I think you did fine. Its a nice looking machine and in a similar situation I might buy a (by US standards) less desirable Victor if I saw one in the UK. However as always, only my opinion ... ;)

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Steve
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Re: HMV Table Top Model

Post by Steve »

igic wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:44 pm All of my Victors are outside horn models. But this was the first. HMV I had ever seen in the US. It plays quite well, and I paid $200 for it. Is that about what it’s worth? I thought the exhibition reproducer alone was worth something.
As I said previously these are not really very desirable in the UK. A really good Style / Model 1 without restoration, adornments, or replacement parts will fetch anything between £30 and £75 at auction or £75 and £120 on Ebay. The no. 1 was the cheapest model sold and therefore is quite commonly found today. I have two in my collection but they're both quite exceptional condition which makes them of interest to me and probably me alone.

A well known dealer here once remarked that one of them was a "completely unremarkable machine in remarkable condition". Probably right.

Yes, an Exhibition soundbox is worth nearly as much but not many people are buying these to acquire the soundbox and strip them for parts as there is not a lot left of salvageable value.

With this said, the value is unimportant if you want it and you've bought it for yourself. The fact that you're in the States is also significant as values and numbers are very different on the other side of the pond.

Over here we ignore or undervalue cabinet machines which were sold in the low hundreds whilst the US market pays up to thousands of Dollars for a Victor equivalent which sold in the tens of thousands.

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