The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Is there a way to stop them?
I keep getting annoyed by big European auction houses, selling gramophones listed as HMV gramophones, when they are not genuine HMV gramophones.
I was corresponding with a Swedish auction house the past days, but despite being told by myself that they were selling a gramophone that was not a HMV model, they finished the sale and received a terrible € 475 from someone believing the words in their listing. They replied once to me in email and told me the machine was in a deceased person's possession a long time, and they had no reason to believe it was not a HMV gramophone bla bla bla...They also said they had not received any complaints from other potential buyers etc, and asked what I based my observations on. I told them I owned the HMG book that showed all HMV models, were corresponding regularly with the international community of HMV collectiors, but they of course, did not want to listen to that..and allowed the auction to finish, fooling someone into believing they know own a genuine HMV gramophone. The gramophone this time, is luckily a genuine antique gramophone, but as we all can see...it is not a HMV, and neither do I know what is funny about this "gramphone".

They also ruin the recruitment to the hobby this way, when potential new collectors are fooled this way.
Here you can see the gramophone, and the name of the Auction house.
https://auctionet.com/en/1794747-funny- ... th-century

This is annoying. These auctioneers should not be so indifferent, they would not dare sell silver as gold or a Jaguar as a Rolls Royce. The title with ‘Funny’ shows the sort of amused and unserious attitude people still have to aspects of this hobby.

The machine in question looks like a German Lindström machine, perhaps Parlophone, and quite nice in its own right. The fake HMV plaque stuck to its side is a shame. It’s either been stuck there to enhance the machines interest/value and/or cover up damage.

Pictures for future interest... Of course, it's an HMV... it says so on the tag, just like a crap-o-phone. Fortunately it is an authentic machine and the price isn't bad for an outside horn machine... at least it wasn't made in India... Other than obvious misrepresentation, I kind of like it.

Auction houses should be more educated than eBay sellers, but like them, they don't want to be confused with facts...

This medallion must be some type of identification...

jamiegramo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:57 pm ...The title with ‘Funny’ shows the sort of amused and unserious attitude people still have to aspects of this hobby.

Not to mention the careless misspelling "Gramphone."

jamiegramo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:57 pm ... The fake HMV plaque stuck to its side is a shame. It’s either been stuck there to enhance the machines interest/value and/or cover up damage.

...or to cover up the extra hole left behind when someone remotored it. Just call me suspicious.

It's not "Funny", it's the Fanny By Gaslight gramophone apparently, very rare and desirable. This would have made over 6000 Euros at Auction Team Brekker. The buyer got a bargain.

Seriously, I used to get all wound up (get it?) about Crapophones everywhere but when I realised that most people knew exactly what they were and EMI apparently couldn't give a rat's a**e about the misuse of their trademark, I gave up worrying on their behalf. Life is too short.

I agree with Steve. Life is too short. I have given up trying to educate ignorant sellers. There is very little appreciation for being helpful. Just type "HMV gramophone" in the ebay search bar, and a zillion crappers show up, including one listed as: HMV Gramophone Antique Fully Funtional Working Fhonograpf Win-Up Record Player.

The biggest problem with fakes being sold as original is that the unsuspecting buyers end up over paying for a crapophone.
In the early days of Ebay, it was possible to contact buyers and inform them that they were bidding on a crapophone. At least then they had a chance of withdrawing their bid. Not any more, there is no way to contact and warn the bidders.

I often get people contacting me with crapophones they insist are original. Recently I had a lady send me a picture of her family heirloom. Of course it was original because she had pictures of the machine with her grandfather and family from the 1960's. Broke my heart to tell her that it was not an original. She refused to believe me, insisting it must be worth thousands....and why did I not want to at least make an offer on it. Painful!

I feel Auction Houses have a bigger responsibility than private sellers. As Jamie says, they would never dare to sell silver as gold, or a Jaguar as a Rolls Royce. Life is short, but when big auction houses are continuing this practice, their indifference are slowly ruining our hobby, and continuing to slam the HMV name, history and logo. Myself, I don't think it is okay.

If noone is taking any legal action, the practice will of course continue, but is there something else to do about it? I admit an idea yesterday slowly took form in my head. What about listing the name on the Auction House in this forum, with photos and printscreens of their listing? I mean, no legitimate and serious business want to lose their good reputation and customers, and since more and more people are using Google to verify and quality check a business before doing business with them, a red flag given here on the forum, would at least help some buyers from being fooled into buying a crapophone, or an unoriginal gramophone listed as original. In the long run, it also hopefully would make some of these sellers think twice before selling another gramophone without checking its authenticity.

Good or bad idea?

The forum already has a Crapophone/Frankenphone subsection which could be used for this purpose.