HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

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Rodney
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HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

Post by Rodney »

I have a friend who lives in Singapore and has an HMV 193 gramophone with a No 52 motor (sometimes referred as an oil bath motor). He is needing to service the motor and is seeking advice and if possible, a service manual. I have been able to provide him with an article in "For the Record" which is helpful but is seeking more information particularly on the type of oil and the depth it should be in the sump. Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you. Rodney
The attached is from His Master's Gramophone by Brian Oakley and Christopher Proudfoot
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Steve
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Re: HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

Post by Steve »

I don't think the type of oil matters. I used car motor oil, which is no doubt a bit over the top and unnecessary but it is what I had to hand. I recall filling the sump something like an inch off the bottom. Again I doubt anywhere near that amount was necessary but my 52 oil bath has been running smoothly, silently and without the pump drying out now for 20 years.

Rodney
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Re: HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

Post by Rodney »

Thank you Steve

Oedipus
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Re: HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

Post by Oedipus »

I found that engine oil is too thick -- it prevents the governor from working properly, and even with new mainsprings, the motor could not keep up 78 rpm for two whole records, let alone four! Ian Maxted told me to try sewing machine oil, which I did, and that solved the problem. As to how much to put in, as long as it covers the pump it should be be enough -- unlike the Garrard Super motor, this one relies on your pumping the oil to the upper bearings by hand, and if you take off the turntable you can see whether oil is coming through when the pump lever is operated. As long a oil comes out of the feed pipe, there must be enough!

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Steve
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Re: HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

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Oedipus wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:56 am I found that engine oil is too thick -- it prevents the governor from working properly, and even with new mainsprings, the motor could not keep up 78 rpm for two whole records, let alone four! Ian Maxted told me to try sewing machine oil, which I did, and that solved the problem. As to how much to put in, as long as it covers the pump it should be be enough -- unlike the Garrard Super motor, this one relies on your pumping the oil to the upper bearings by hand, and if you take off the turntable you can see whether oil is coming through when the pump lever is operated. As long a oil comes out of the feed pipe, there must be enough!
That's very interesting. As I responded earlier, I haven't found engine oil to be a problem and the running speed of my 202 has been rock solid for over 20 years whilst breezing through 5 10" records without the slightest bump or noise.

I agree about the depth of oil though. Sufficient to be able to prime the pump is probably enough. My motor is overfilled but its a curious design which invites the user to simply fill up the whole reservoir!

anchorman
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Re: HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

Post by anchorman »

My understanding from reading others’ experiences, is that it the oil level is too full, it will wash the grease from the mainsprings. This was an issue for someone with a garrard super. I’m not sure whether the springs in these are meant to be oiled or greased. Every other gramophone I’ve handled does best with graphite grease on the mainsprings. It certainly would be simpler if they could simply be lubricated by the oil, though.

Certainly if the oil level reached the level of the governor weights, it would cause drag on the governor, so there’s a limit right there.

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Steve
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Re: HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

Post by Steve »

I've never experienced the issue of grease being dragged from the spring barrels.

JerryVan
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Re: HMV No 52 Oil Bath Motor

Post by JerryVan »

Oedipus wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:56 am I found that engine oil is too thick -- it prevents the governor from working properly...
I suppose that would depend heavily on the weight of oil used. 20W-50? 0W-10?

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