Pathé phonograph horn and reproducer 'weight' questions

[poodling around]

I have to say that I have only recently become interested in cylinder phonographs and know very little about them.

There are three photographs 'below' and I wonder:

On the Pathé horn it states two things:

1. What looks like 'VERITE' - what does this mean please ?

2. Also, 'BTE SGDG' - which having looked at the internet seems refer to patents which have no government guarentee. What does this actually mean though ?

3. I also have a 'Pathé weight' which I think is used to balance on top of the reproducer ? This would create more pressure on the cylinder I guess. Why would this be necessary though ?

Thanks for any help / advice you can give.

[Inigo]

Verité was a system from Pathé, don't know what consisted in. Breveté SGDG I don't know the exact meaning, butt all French things patented carry this notice. maybe means patents pending or something similar.
Maybe one of our French versed colleagues sheds more light...

[CarlosV]

Brevété SGDG (¨sans garantie du gouvernement¨) is the French patent system used at the time - translated as ¨patented with no government assurance¨.

The Verité system consists of a suspension made of a frame made of bent wires that cradled the horn and the reproducer: that frame was fixed to the base of the machine, and supposedly increased the fidelity of the reproduction. It was sold as an optional gadget, a French version of the US snake oil. The knob shown is part of that Verité system, I think.

[OrthoFan]

Here's PDF copy I made of a webpage showing the "Système Vérité" --

PATHE COQUET CYLINDER PHONOGRAPH.pdf

(366.04 KiB) Downloaded 33 times

I tried posting the link, itself, but when I clicked on it to test it, I was greeted with a "not found" message. Seems that this may have been an archived page, though I was able to bookmark it and call it up in my browser.

Anyway,
HTH,
OrthoFan

[poodling around]

Here's PDF copy I made of a webpage showing the "Système Vérité" --

Pathé COQUET CYLINDER PHONOGRAPH.pdf

I tried posting the link, itself, but when I clicked on it to test it, I was greeted with a "not found" message. Seems that this may have been an archived page, though I was able to bookmark it and call it up in my browser.

Anyway,
HTH,
OrthoFan

Fantastic ! Thank you OrthoFan, I now know what that is.

Can I also ask please, what is the difference between a 2 minute and four minute reproducer ? Is it that the 4 minute 'stylus' is thinner ?

Are they always made from a gemstones or glass - never metal needles ?

[drh]

Right, never metal. Going from two-minute to four-minute meant cutting the groove pitch and width in half. Hence, a four-minute reproducer will have a stylus half the dimensions of a two-minute.

Although they're about Edison rather than Pathé, I wrote a couple of basic articles about cylinder machines that might be helpful. If you'd like to take a look, the first, which links to the second, is here: https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/ediso ... rs1_e.html

[poodling around]

Right, never metal. Going from two-minute to four-minute meant cutting the groove pitch and width in half. Hence, a four-minute reproducer will have a stylus half the dimensions of a two-minute.

Although they're about Edison rather than Pathé, I wrote a couple of basic articles about cylinder machines that might be helpful. If you'd like to take a look, the first, which links to the second, is here: https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/ediso ... rs1_e.html

Brilliant ! Thanks very much drh.

I figured out that the weight goes on top of the smaller Pathé reproducer by the way. Without which there is no sound.

It also seems that Pathé produced two different sized reproducers - one for 2 minute and one for four minute cylinders - maybe.

Your internet link was very helpful and very well written. Very helpful indeed.

How could I have allowed cylinder phonographs to 'pass me by' for so many years !

[poodling around]

Finally to mention:

The good news is that I discovered that there are two reproducers because one is for playing and the other recording. They were made in 1899, which is amazing. The actual Pathé phonograph is from 1900. Again, amazing to me.

The bad news is that I dropped the playing reproducer heavily on a cylinder and a fairly big chunk of the cylinder broke off. Rats !!! I have learn't therefore to place the reproducer gently down on to the cylinder in future and then only when it is spinning - I think.