Out of the box, HMV 100

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
User avatar
nostalgia
Victor IV
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by nostalgia »

I received this portable in the mail today, the short lived HMV 100, the first real compact and "carrying friendly" portable manufactured by the Gramophone Company, and the model heralding the 101, the most successfull machine from the HMV factories, in terms of annual sales. (According to the HMG book).
The machine looks good to my eyes, apart from the lid transfer, that is somewhat torn. I could not find any photos of the machine on the forum since we have lost so many photos, so chose to upload some. It is the first time I have seen it for sale in my area, after five years following and (even vacuum cleaning ) the market here for hard to find gramophones.
Does the machine look all genuine to your trained eyes?
Attachments
IMG20230604131754.jpg
IMG20230604131803.jpg
IMG20230604131810.jpg
IMG20230604131901.jpg
IMG20230604131907.jpg
IMG20230604131936.jpg
IMG20230604132011.jpg

User avatar
poodling around
Victor V
Posts: 2198
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:52 am

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by poodling around »

nostalgia wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:41 am I received this portable in the mail today, the short lived HMV 100, the first real compact and "carrying friendly" portable manufactured by the Gramophone Company, and the model heralding the 101, the most successfull machine from the HMV factories, in terms of annual sales. (According to the HMG book).
The machine looks good to my eyes, apart from the lid transfer, that is somewhat torn. I could not find any photos of the machine on the forum since we have lost so many photos, so chose to upload some. It is the first time I have seen it for sale in my area, after five years following and (even vacuum cleaning ) the market here for hard to find gramophones.
Does the machine look all genuine to your trained eyes?
Lovely example I think.

Bearing in mind I am not an expert but I think this is a complete and very good condition HMV 100. Not the earliest version as, for example it has the lid 'stay' on the right hand side. On the other hand it doesn't have a metal ring around the hole in the lid record storage area which is an early example trait. So a 'transition model 100 perhaps. It is more or less the same as the one I have. Your soundbox looks as if it is in fantastic condition too !

Your comment about 'vacuum cleaning the market around you really made me laugh in a good way.

User avatar
Steve
Victor VI
Posts: 3244
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:40 pm
Location: London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, New York, Evesham

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by Steve »

nostalgia wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:41 am I received this portable in the mail today, the short lived HMV 100, the first real compact and "carrying friendly" portable manufactured by the Gramophone Company, and the model heralding the 101, the most successfull machine from the HMV factories, in terms of annual sales. (According to the HMG book).
The machine looks good to my eyes, apart from the lid transfer, that is somewhat torn. I could not find any photos of the machine on the forum since we have lost so many photos, so chose to upload some. It is the first time I have seen it for sale in my area, after five years following and (even vacuum cleaning ) the market here for hard to find gramophones.
Does the machine look all genuine to your trained eyes?
Two things sort of leap out to me, albeit they are minor and can easily and cheaply be corrected but the lid latch and carrying handle are replacements.

The very early 100s did have the same style lid latch as its predecessor, the 105 (confusing, hey?), but your lid latch does not look identical to that type anyway and it is very different to the more commonly seen later version. Your 100 is not the first type though as has already been pointed out so either way I don't believe it's correct. Maybe someone with a dozen different 100s can chime in?

The carrying handle should have two fish eye leather hooks at either end with a single rivet through each loop. It's the commonly seen pre-Pakawa type of handle.

Bear in mind, I'm being pedantic as an owner of 5 different 100s! But you did ask the question! ;)

User avatar
nostalgia
Victor IV
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by nostalgia »

Steve, I appreciate you being pedantic here, it is what I want. I too paid attention to the lid latch, but have no expertise to evaluate it further, apart from the fact that it is pre Pakawa, and also not similar to the one found on my early front wind 101. The lid latch, I immediately saw it was not similar to the one found on the 101, but I have never seen a 100 close up, so I had no bacground to evaluate it.
The only question that lingers in my head, and maybe will continue to do so...is only: Why would someone change a lid latch and a carrying handle on a machine that hardly ever seem to have been used. I have checked the turntable, there hardly looks to have been any records put on it, and we can see the shining corner shields, and the motor board..it has no marks from needles or use etc..and the sound box, well..it looks all new too. And of course the cabinet itself, it has no marks from being carried around or being used at all. In total, to my eyes..the machine looks to have been stored for decades in a dry climate.
I don't think I will change anything on it really for now, I can live with the carrying handle since it looks good and there are no redundant holes found in the area of the screws etc, and the lid latch, if not someone with a 100% certainty say it should be the same as found on a 101, then I of course easily can change the latch, since I have many of these at hand.

User avatar
poodling around
Victor V
Posts: 2198
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:52 am

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by poodling around »

nostalgia wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:13 am Steve, I appreciate you being pedantic here, it is what I want. I too paid attention to the lid latch, but have no expertise to evaluate it further, apart from the fact that it is pre Pakawa, and also not similar to the one found on my early front wind 101. The lid latch, I immediately saw it was not similar to the one found on the 101, but I have never seen a 100 close up, so I had no bacground to evaluate it.
The only question that lingers in my head, and maybe will continue to do so...is only: Why would someone change a lid latch and a carrying handle on a machine that hardly ever seem to have been used. I have checked the turntable, there hardly looks to have been any records put on it, and we can see the shining corner shields, and the motor board..it has no marks from needles or use etc..and the sound box, well..it looks all new too. And of course the cabinet itself, it has no marks from being carried around or being used at all. In total, to my eyes..the machine looks to have been stored for decades in a dry climate.
I don't think I will change anything on it really for now, I can live with the carrying handle since it looks good and there are no redundant holes found in the area of the screws etc, and the lid latch, if not someone with a 100% certainty say it should be the same as found on a 101, then I of course easily can change the latch, since I have many of these at hand.
I don't know how helpful this is, but I dragged my HMV 100 out and took some photographs of the lid stay.

I wonder, do you think yours looks anything like mine ?

My HMV 100 has some traits belonging to the ones first made and some later traits - I guess the HMV factory were using old stock items at the time as and when they could.

Anyway ............
Attachments
ca.jpg
ca2.jpg

User avatar
Steve
Victor VI
Posts: 3244
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:40 pm
Location: London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, New York, Evesham

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by Steve »

nostalgia wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:13 am Steve, I appreciate you being pedantic here, it is what I want. I too paid attention to the lid latch, but have no expertise to evaluate it further, apart from the fact that it is pre Pakawa, and also not similar to the one found on my early front wind 101. The lid latch, I immediately saw it was not similar to the one found on the 101, but I have never seen a 100 close up, so I had no bacground to evaluate it.
The only question that lingers in my head, and maybe will continue to do so...is only: Why would someone change a lid latch and a carrying handle on a machine that hardly ever seem to have been used. I have checked the turntable, there hardly looks to have been any records put on it, and we can see the shining corner shields, and the motor board..it has no marks from needles or use etc..and the sound box, well..it looks all new too. And of course the cabinet itself, it has no marks from being carried around or being used at all. In total, to my eyes..the machine looks to have been stored for decades in a dry climate.
I don't think I will change anything on it really for now, I can live with the carrying handle since it looks good and there are no redundant holes found in the area of the screws etc, and the lid latch, if not someone with a 100% certainty say it should be the same as found on a 101, then I of course easily can change the latch, since I have many of these at hand.
The handle is definitely not original to it. I've seen dozens of 100s, currently own five different ones and I've probably seen over a thousand early 101s by now. HMV never supplied a strap like that to my knowledge.

Also, it's obviously a very well preserved machine BUT that doesn't mean it hasn't been used or carried about. Straps break through leather fatigue and age. The machine might have had an early type lid catch but if its identical to the 105 (I have one of these but it's not currently accessible) they were a very cheap and flimsy type and no doubt broke easily through use, hence why they didn't use them for long. It's possible that is why yours might have been changed. It also appears to have a different colour and patina than the rest of the plated steel hardware.
Last edited by Steve on Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
nostalgia
Victor IV
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by nostalgia »

Here are the lid stay on my machine...it looks to my eyes the same as on your machine, poodling around?
Attachments
IMG20230604175052.jpg
IMG20230604175026.jpg

User avatar
nostalgia
Victor IV
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by nostalgia »

Steve, were we talking about the lid stay or lid lock, that you felt could have been replaced here`?
I am not familiar with the phrase...lid latch...of course since I live outside UK:;)
I see your view on the carrying handle, and I also appreciate and understand your position etc. and will of course swallow the truth..still...I find it all odd.
It can not be a preliminary handle, used even for export?
I can't see any traces of hard use, or really...any use at all on this machine.

User avatar
poodling around
Victor V
Posts: 2198
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:52 am

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by poodling around »

nostalgia wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:57 am Here are the lid stay on my machine...it looks to my eyes the same as on your machine, poodling around?
I must admit, that in a police line up of lid stays I would have to confirm the identity of your lid stay as being the same as mine. :)

User avatar
Steve
Victor VI
Posts: 3244
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:40 pm
Location: London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, New York, Evesham

Re: Out of the box, HMV 100

Post by Steve »

nostalgia wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:02 pm Steve, were we talking about the lid stay or lid lock, that you felt could have been replaced here`?
I am not familiar with the phrase...lid latch...of course since I live outside UK:;)
I see your view on the carrying handle, and I also appreciate and understand your position etc. and will of course swallow the truth..still...I find it all odd.
It can not be a preliminary handle, used even for export?
I can't see any traces of hard use, or really...any use at all on this machine.
The original handles used a "D" shaped ring at either end which has the flat part within the metal clasp attached to side of case. The round part fits into the "fish eye/ fish tail" leather loop at each end of the stiched leather centre. There is a single rivet holding the centre piece within the loop. Your strap whilst different also has something else in place of the usual "D" rings.

Post Reply