Unbranded machine tone-arm question

[rw101]

Hello everyone,
I have purchased this machine, mainly because it looks really beautiful. I knew it didn't work, and that it had a Paillard double spring motor. It would be great to get it going again. There is no indication as to the manufacturer - completely unbranded.

On taking it apart (seems like the whole motor had been sitting in a bath of oil for years to try and encourage it to work), one of the springs was broken, which I have now sorted. However, I am slightly puzzled by the connection of the tone arm to the main case. It is completely floppy, and looks to me like there are bits missing (e.g. some sort of seal to hold it steady?). There is some mechanism for tightening it up, but I would be unsure of how to set it at the correct height, so the needle did not weigh too heavily on any record. Can anyone help ?

The sound box is a “Crescendo Junior”, marked as swiss made, and the motor is I think (based on photos on the gramophone museum website) a Paillard TAR, although it doesn’t actually state that on the motor (like the ones in the photos - it does have the Paillard trademark though). So a few things which are a bit curious to a novice like myself.

I’d be grateful for any insights you may have.

[Steve]

The "Crescendo Junior" soundbox might not be original to the rest of it as this soundbox was intended for a budget portable gramophone apparently made by Decca but never officially listed within its catalogues. Certainly the tone-arm and motor are also Swiss made products bought in and used for what we often refer to as an "off-brand" machine, that's a horn, cabinet, table model or portable manufactured from assembled bought-in parts, usually Swiss or German. The cabinet might be British. The arm is not obviously missing any part so probably cannot be adjusted.

[Phono48]

However, I am slightly puzzled by the connection of the tone arm to the main case. It is completely floppy, and looks to me like there are bits missing (e.g. some sort of seal to hold it steady?). There is some mechanism for tightening it up, but I would be unsure of how to set it at the correct height, so the needle did not weigh too heavily on any record. Can anyone help ?

You cannot "set it at the correct height". The arm must be free to move in all directions. If you restrict it in any way, you will destroy your records. Without wishing to sound rude, the arm is typical of many low-budget types fitted to made-up machines, known as "off-brand". Better quality arms have ball bearings and airtight joints.

Barry

[JerryVan]

Are you saying that the joint at the base of the tone arm is sloppy? The base joint should swivel freely to the right & left, but not up & down. If it's loose up & down, then something is amiss. However, the issue can't be deduced from your pictures, since the intended design of the joint is not visible. As to the needle pressure, it's not adjustable and is totally dependent upon the weight of the reproducer. The reproducer should swing freely up & down through the joint between the tone arm and the "U" tube, (to which the reproducer is attached).

[rw101]

Thank you. I was just replying to Phono48 when your reply came in.
It is precisely that - the whole tone arm goes up and down at the base joint. Hence me thinking perhaps there was some form of seal or something that might be missing to stop this. In the first photo, you can see the slot of a bolt with a nut a little below, there is another nut further down that bolt, and I think these can be used to potentially tighten up the vertical movement. However, they could be tightened at different points of that bolt (the nuts are 1cm apart, and so you could tighten either one to the level of the other) which would affect the height of the hinge between the U tube and the tone arm. This is what I was referring to when I was asking about setting the right height, and trying to make sure that the hinge was at a suitable height above the record so only the weight of the reproducer and U tube hit the record rather than the whole tone arm. Thinking again, I’m not sure it would actually matter, as long as the weight of the tone arm is taken at the base joint by restricting the vertical movement there.

[Phono48]

Ah, now I understand your problem, which I didn't when I posted my reply. I think it is simply that the nuts are not tightened sufficiently. I would remove them, and lift the arm out of the base. Clean the base of the arm, and the inside of the base, then apply a coat of grease to both. Replace the arm into the base, and put one of the nuts onto the thread, then do it up until the arm is held tightly. Back the nut off just enough to let the arm swing freely from side to side, and then add the second nut, threading up to the first one, then tighten. (it is there to purely to lock the first one in place). This should cure the problem. Wipe off any excess grease that has been forced out. Let us know how you get on.

Barry

[JerryVan]

Hence me thinking perhaps there was some form of seal or something that might be missing to stop this.

There would be no seal. Assuming nothing is actually broken, it should be a matter of adjustment.

[rw101]

Thanks everyone for the help. Encouraging to hear it might be a straightforward fix. I’ll let you know how I get on.

[VanEpsFan1914]

If a later tonearm of the same length could be bought, you might be able to upgrade? It could be a reversible modification.

Beautiful cabinet and definitely a showpiece in a living room.

[Curt A]

VanEpsFan is right. I don't know how much of your tonearm and reproducer are pot metal, but there are obvious cracks shown in the pic of the tonearm mount. It wouldn't hurt to find a good quality tonearm and reproducer (HMV, Victor, etc.) of the same length and upgrade it to play on a reliable basis. There is no branding on your machine, so it would be a non-issue.