HMV 102's with metal motor-boards question

[poodling around]

When you say 'Something that none of you has pointed out, though it may be implied, is that the coloured motor boards, whether of wood or metal, are covered in leathercloth (or red leather). (By contrast, the metal motor board of the 99 in blue or red is painted in a crinkle-finish.)' ... do you mean that, for example, if you have an early red 102 with a metal motor-board, then the metal does not show, it is just covered with red leather - cloth ?

Correct. You can identify a cloth covered metal motor board without even removing the turntable.
The brake and speed controls are riveted on. They would be screwed onto a wooden motor board.

Well, I had to 'dig out' my red HMV 102 metal motor-board gramopone as I was sure it had just been spray painted. I was wrong of course !

Thank you very much epigramophone for such useful information. I can now identify any metal motor-board HMV 102 easily by looking for rivets !

Thank you too Oedipus for mentioning the cloth covering initially.

[Steve]

When you say 'Something that none of you has pointed out, though it may be implied, is that the coloured motor boards, whether of wood or metal, are covered in leathercloth (or red leather). (By contrast, the metal motor board of the 99 in blue or red is painted in a crinkle-finish.)' ... do you mean that, for example, if you have an early red 102 with a metal motor-board, then the metal does not show, it is just covered with red leather - cloth ?

Correct. You can identify a cloth covered metal motor board without even removing the turntable.
The brake and speed controls are riveted on. They would be screwed onto a wooden motor board.

I can't believe we're disappearing so far down the rabbit hole over the metal motor-boarded 102's. It should be quite obvious to anyone who has ever looked at a 102 that the earliest examples have metal motor-boards and from designation "B"'s that changed to plywood and veneer. Its all spelt out very clearly in HMG that i know most everybody here has a copy of to hand. Of course, coloured case examples have matching rexine or "leather-cloth" to use Gramophone Company parlance, covered metal decks as coloured cases nearly always had matching interiors (I've yet to see one of the rumoured examples with wooden decking). This should hardly need mentioning. Black cases got a faux veneer covering to the motorboard until the plywood decks came into use when real veneer was used. I won't start another thread asking what the material was that they used for that either!

I was able to determine that my brown 102 had a metal motorboard by simply tapping it with my fingers and feeling around the edge of the horn aperture (which has a corresponding thin edge). For anyone who hasnt got a copy of "HMG" or Dave Cooper's "The Perfect Portable", I'd suggest if you're looking at a 102 in person use your fingers to ascertain the material if it's of any consequence to you.

If you're examination is limited to looking at a photograph online then you're quite right, Roger, check for rivets!

[poodling around]

When you say 'Something that none of you has pointed out, though it may be implied, is that the coloured motor boards, whether of wood or metal, are covered in leathercloth (or red leather). (By contrast, the metal motor board of the 99 in blue or red is painted in a crinkle-finish.)' ... do you mean that, for example, if you have an early red 102 with a metal motor-board, then the metal does not show, it is just covered with red leather - cloth ?

Correct. You can identify a cloth covered metal motor board without even removing the turntable.
The brake and speed controls are riveted on. They would be screwed onto a wooden motor board.

I can't believe we're disappearing so far down the rabbit hole over the metal motor-boarded 102's. It should be quite obvious to anyone who has ever looked at a 102 that the earliest examples have metal motor-boards and from designation "B"'s that changed to plywood and veneer. Its all spelt out very clearly in HMG that i know most everybody here has a copy of to hand. Of course, coloured case examples have matching rexine or "leather-cloth" to use Gramophone Company parlance, covered metal decks as coloured cases nearly always had matching interiors (I've yet to see one of the rumoured examples with wooden decking). This should hardly need mentioning. Black cases got a faux veneer covering to the motorboard until the plywood decks came into use when real veneer was used. I won't start another thread asking what the material was that they used for that either!

I was able to determine that my brown 102 had a metal motorboard by simply tapping it with my fingers and feeling around the edge of the horn aperture (which has a corresponding thin edge). For anyone who hasnt got a copy of "HMG" or Dave Cooper's "The Perfect Portable", I'd suggest if you're looking at a 102 in person use your fingers to ascertain the material if it's of any consequence to you.

If you're examination is limited to looking at a photograph online then you're quite right, Roger, check for rivets!

Very interesting indeed !

So, when actively looking for HMV 102's with metal motorboards, to be absolutely certain, looking for rivets, tapping it and 'feeling around the edge of the horn aperture' can all provide vital clues. It also occurs to me that if attending an auction, for example, one could simply secrete a small but powerful magnet some-where about your person and when no-one is looking use that. I guess trying to find or make a magnet ring might be ideal !

Great stuff !