A PAYPAL CAUTIONARY TALE

[Steve]

To begin with, his had nothing to do with eBay. After 24 years of eBay sales, which comprise a very small percentage of my overall business, I do not need instructions from PeterF on sales techniques and protocol. Again, I repeat what I said prior, the whole purpose of this thread is to inform the TMF community of a loophole in the system that PayPal is a major part of, their being a financial intermediary and facilitator of payments.

The sale was made directly with the customer using PayPal. He used his AMEX card, paid PayPal and then started issuing complaints: vulgar, threatening and otherwise. That AMEX approved his chargeback without his returning the goods is beyond my comprehension. Then PayPal debited me for the cabinet, for which they say I have no recourse.

Last year I documented on this forum a similar issue that eventually was resolved in my favor. These two comprise the total of my negative experiences of this sort, and this being a forum for sharing information I thought it was appropriate. But first I have somebody inferring that I have something to hide, and another person lecturing me on how to conduct my business - but I was not surprised to see him, of all people, chime in with a condescending and nonsensical post.

Raphael

For the record, I never questioned your innocence or suggested you have something to hide. Like your original post, my post was talking in general to everybody who might benefit from learning about these scenarios. When I say "if you've got nothing to hide" I'm throwing down the gauntlet to anyone in your position and advising to name the person otherwise it can become a futile exercise writing about a bad experience as from first hand experience i know very few will ask the question so who's to know who the problem person is otherwise?

[52089]

To begin with, his had nothing to do with eBay. After 24 years of eBay sales, which comprise a very small percentage of my overall business, I do not need instructions from PeterF on sales techniques and protocol. Again, I repeat what I said prior, the whole purpose of this thread is to inform the TMF community of a loophole in the system that PayPal is a major part of, their being a financial intermediary and facilitator of payments.

The sale was made directly with the customer using PayPal. He used his AMEX card, paid PayPal and then started issuing complaints: vulgar, threatening and otherwise. That AMEX approved his chargeback without his returning the goods is beyond my comprehension. Then PayPal debited me for the cabinet, for which they say I have no recourse.

Last year I documented on this forum a similar issue that eventually was resolved in my favor. These two comprise the total of my negative experiences of this sort, and this being a forum for sharing information I thought it was appropriate. But first I have somebody inferring that I have something to hide, and another person lecturing me on how to conduct my business - but I was not surprised to see him, of all people, chime in with a condescending and nonsensical post.

Raphael

I didn't take Peter's comments as necessarily being directed at you, just as general advice to shall we say a less-experienced person who finds themself in a similar situation down the road. You can take his comments as you like of course, but personally, I don't think there was any intention of condescension or "instruction".

[PeterF]

Yup, that’s correct Kevin. I gave general advice, equally applicable to eBay or PayPal or just about everything else online. My example was ebay since most of us use it to buy and sell, rather than just as free advertising.

It’s generally good to not act all bitter, not play the victim, and one will likely get better results. And maybe even be happier, day to day.

Some people are just touchy I guess. And others prove that they are, time and time again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Raphael]

Yup, that’s correct Kevin. I gave general advice, equally applicable to eBay or PayPal or just about everything else online. My example was ebay since most of us use it to buy and sell, rather than just as free advertising.

It’s generally good to not act all bitter, not play the victim, and one will likely get better results. And maybe even be happier, day to day.

Some people are just touchy I guess. And others prove that they are, time and time again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

All these words of wisdom coming from the one and only TMF member that has outright scammed me, by misrepresenting a part that I needed and then telling me "You're a dealer, you should have known better". I've saved all the emails and can prove this time and time again, as I have to many others here. My $400 loss was certainly a lesson well learned.

Peter, it's time you looked elsewhere to annoy somebody. So grow up and maybe you'll find some integrity along the way. And if anybody here wants the PeterF story, I'll be glad to relay it.

Raphael

[PeterF]

Someone made it personal in public and I can’t do a PM to him, so regretfully I guess I have to respond in public. Sorry folks.

————-

Oh Raffy, sad little man, always the victim.

It was $300, and you tried to play the same trick on me as your Opera guy just played on you.

Except apparently he has succeeded, whereas back then you didn’t. And you can’t stand that, over a decade later, so you dredge it back up every time I comment on one of your topics.

C’mon man, try to subsume that old bitterness into something more enlightened.

Life’s too short. And as our ranks steadily wither, doesn’t it make more sense to not alienate those who remain?

[Raphael]

I made a Yankee Trader post several years ago asking for a wooden tone arm to fit a Sonora that I was restoring. PeterF responded privately that he had one that was a take-off from either an Invincible or Supreme. So I bought it, sent him the money, and received a stubby little tone arm that came from a console model. When I emailed him he ignored me. A second email by me refused a return of the item and ended with the response “…you’re a dealer and should have known better”. Ever since, Peter has butted into my posts with snarky comments and other crap.

Don’t confuse facts with fantasy, especially not with me, and I certainly do not need your advice in any shape, fashion or form, PeterF.

Raphael

[Raphael]

Steve, I apologize if I took your “nothing to hide” comment the wrong way, but this situation is mine to deal with and I have my reasons for not publishing his name at this time. However, quite a few TMF readers have already contacted me privately and are fully informed. In due course I will disclose his name, and further details that are truly obnoxious.

Raphael

[Steve]

Steve, I apologize if I took your “nothing to hide” comment the wrong way, but this situation is mine to deal with and I have my reasons for not publishing his name at this time. However, quite a few TMF readers have already contacted me privately and are fully informed. In due course I will disclose his name, and further details that are truly obnoxious.

Raphael

Hi Raphael,

Thank you. Yes, I understand completely so it's no problem to me as far as I'm concerned and yes, I fully understand that emotions and tensions are running high in this thread already as any allegations either way inevitably provoke our innermost sense of security and self preservation. We're all in a small community spread far and wide but it's that very small community which relies to a large degree on word of mouth and personal reputation that none of us want to feel has been unfairly degraded by careless spreading of misinformation.

I respect your desire to keep the name out of the public arena at the present time but will follow the thread out of interest for future updates.

I hope you get it all sorted out in your favour.

Best wishes,

Steve

[Raphael]

This matter has now apparently come to a conclusion, more than six months from it's onset. I think it's appropriate at this time to disclose the name of this most problematic person. But first, a little more background information:

In December 2021 he negotiated a purchase from me of a Victor VI and matching original cabinet. Upon his request, I sent him two PayPal invoices. He never paid, and after several days I asked him about the status, and he responded: "Clearly you sir are unprofessional and delusional if you think your “Antiques” are worth fortunes. You deserve for your business to shut down for the way you treat and rip off potential costumers. Go find another costumer that will pay you $10,500". I later learned that after agreeing to the purchase and requesting invoices, he had continued to shop around with other dealers.

In July 2022 he contacted me again, this time under a different email address and not disclosing his name. I quoted him on an Opera and cylinder cabinet. He agreed to buy both, and when I later realized it was the same person as back in December, I chose to ignore his rudeness and proceed with the sale. I should have known better.

The rest of the story was disclosed earlier on this thread. Yesterday I received final resolution with PayPal and AMEX. Hopefully, the story is over and I never need to concern myself with this fellow again. For the benefit of fellow TMF members I am giving out his name here, so that you can be forewarned and cautioned should you ever hear from him.

JOSEPH MUSSO
Roslyn, NY

I don't think it's proper to publish his email and telephone numbers, but if any TMF member needs them, I will do so by private email.

Raphael