The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Victor VI
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Victor III
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 am
Posts: 715
Location: Davie, FL
Recently I listed a nice Victor VI on eBay, together with a repro cabinet: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161110761993?ssPageName=STRK:MEUSX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1560.l2649.

The record cabinet was stated to be a reproduction. The buyer is very upset, claiming the V6 phonograph casing is a Peruvian reproduction as well, which I have proved to him is not the case. In fact, I displayed this beauty at Union and not a single dealer or collector disputed its' originality.

We are all temporary custodians of this stuff, and at this stage I doubt if there are any more "original owners" out there. So, information regarding provenance, originality, etc., must be respected and passed down from owner to owner. In this case, the previous owner (a well respected collector/dealer) advised me that it was not a repro, had been in his possession for 10 years or more, restored by him, etc. I also contacted Eduardo in Peru and he pointed out to me a number of reasons why it was an original cabinet and definitely not one of his concoctions.

In any event, I have offered the buyer a full refund (including shipping costs), which he has declined, but it seems he is determined to be unhappy with his purchase.

I read the Forum daily to learn about phonographs and collectors (equally important pieces of the business equation). Can any of you enlighten me as to what a dealer such as myself can do to prevent such misunderstandings? Or how much further I can go to prove "originality"?


thanks, Raphael


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:45 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:26 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Just a smidgen north of Oakland, CA
Raphael,

Since you have gone to some length to prove the machine you sold is original, and since you have backed up your contention with the most compelling argument a dealer can make (by offering a complete refund, including shipping), I (an inexperienced collector) do not believe you can do anything more. Apparently, you had the misfortune to sell this fine machine to somebody who has more money than sense. May he or she enjoy his or her self-inflicted unhappiness!

Best wishes and good luck, Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:29 am 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:09 pm
Posts: 1651
Simply put, some people are nuts. You can't reason with them, and you will sometimes encounter them in any aspect of life. You did the honorable thing by offerning a full refund, even though the misunderstanding was in his mind. Since he kept the machine, I would not worry about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:44 pm
Posts: 517
Location: Missouri
I echo the sentiments spoken by Mark...some people (many, actually...)have more money than sense. Couple that with the "buyers remorse" that many people have as well, and you end up with a dangerous individual. As you have always done, you have offered this person complete resolution to his problem. Evidently, he has chosen not to take up your offer, and simply sulk in his own self-induced misery.
With that said, your business practices seem to remain solid. As you look around you, there is evidence of that everywhere you see. You must be treating your customers with respect or you would not be as successful as you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Victor III
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 am
Posts: 715
Location: Davie, FL
Thanks, all, for the kind words. This one had me fired up big-time the past few days, I really take it to heart when a customer isn't satisfied with his purchase. And when accusations of misrepresentation, fraud, etc. are tossed in, it becomes like a 5-alarm fire to me.

I owned apartment buildings for many years, and as an owner-manager one of the most important lessons I learned was that some people are just miserable, and they seek to spread their misery at all levels. No sooner had they moved in, they would approach other tenants, tell them "the landlord is overcharging for the rent, he won't do any maintenance, he's going to keep your security deposit, etc., etc.). So, I made it a pointed effort to identify such personalities during the interview process, and it improved the quality of life for all concerned. Wish I could do so in this business!

Raphael


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 773
Location: United Kingdom
raphael wrote:
In any event, I have offered the buyer a full refund (including shipping costs), which he has declined, but it seems he is determined to be unhappy with his purchase.


Of course he's declined! He's no doubt quite happy with the machine, but was hoping you would offer him a substantial partial refund. Some buyers make a habit of doing this, all you can do is block him from bidding on any of your items in the future. You did the right thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:38 pm
Posts: 1335
Location: Plover, WI
I sold this Victor VI to Raphael this past June at the Union show and can assure everyone that it is and original case. I had the case restored by a highly reputable shop in Milwaukee (Craig Graybar) about ten or fifteen years ago and the metal parts were re-plated. I wish I had some pictures of the case when I bought it. The wood was rough but very solid. It was an expensive restoration but I think it turned out great.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:26 am 
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Victor III
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 am
Posts: 715
Location: Davie, FL
Ken,

Thank you again for your supplying me with this information promptly and courteously when I called you the other day. Also, Eduardo in Peru came forth with very helpful information within a very short time of my asking for help.

I have since received a full written apology from the buyer and his request for forgiveness.

In my business I also sell high-end clocks, some going for as much as $75k. Every once in a while, somebody accuses me of selling a fake, and it always turns out they have no basis whatsoever for their claim. More often than not, the origin of the suspicion is not the buyer, but a know-it-all collector "friend" who is simply jealous and wanting to disparage what he did not, or could not, purchase himself.


Raphael


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:34 am 
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Victor VI
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:14 pm
Posts: 3708
Location: Merritt Island, FL
Sadly dealing with the public at large always means encountering some dysfunctional people. One of the unpleasant aspects of doing business, I suppose.

Clay
Arthur W. J. G. Ord-Hume's Laws of Collecting
1. Space will expand to accommodate an infinite number of possessions, regardless of their size.
2. Shortage of finance, however dire, will never prevent the acquisition of a desired object, however improbable its cost.


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