Berliner Clark-Johnson reproducer, UK eBay

[Ahmed]

This popped up on UK eBay yesterday. Looks like a Berliner reproducer to me, although not my area of expertise

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gramophone-P ... 635-2958-0

[Steve]

Whoever made it can't spell "Great Britain"!!!

Otherwise it does look genuine. You have to wonder though how someone who has little to no interest in gramophones just happens to magic up one of the rarest and most coveted soundboxes any collector would want. I mean, seriously, in 30 odd years of collecting I've never seen one of these for sale. If anything one of a couple of dealers might have horse traded to get one back in the day to complete a trademark machine.

Clearly the Ebay seller has no idea what he's got. I'm surprised no one has told him yet!

[soundgen]

Whoever made it can't spell "Great Britain"!!!

Otherwise it does look genuine. You have to wonder though how someone who has little to no interest in gramophones just happens to magic up one of the rarest and most coveted soundboxes any collector would want. I mean, seriously, in 30 odd years of collecting I've never seen one of these for sale. If anything one of a couple of dealers might have horse traded to get one back in the day to complete a trademark machine.

Clearly the Ebay seller has no idea what he's got. I'm surprised no one has told him yet!

Made in India in the 1980s the J stands for Henry Jacobsen , Henry made Reproduction Hand driven Berliners , Open motor works Style 2 and Trademark machines , we sold a lot of them in the UK , 20 Hand wind Berliners were sold to a European Dealer and I have seen these in Auction in Hamburg make £3000 ! BUT all the reproduction machines had tell tale signs which should alert any knowledgeable buyer to see they weren't original , such as the wrong base profile on the Berliner and a painted casting , and Hexagonal nuts on the other machines instead of square nuts and misspelling on parts of the transfers etc ! The Trademarks were sold in USA by " Yesterday once again " and one appears in a Sherlock Holmes film !

[poodling around]

Whoever made it can't spell "Great Britain"!!!

Otherwise it does look genuine. You have to wonder though how someone who has little to no interest in gramophones just happens to magic up one of the rarest and most coveted soundboxes any collector would want. I mean, seriously, in 30 odd years of collecting I've never seen one of these for sale. If anything one of a couple of dealers might have horse traded to get one back in the day to complete a trademark machine.

Clearly the Ebay seller has no idea what he's got. I'm surprised no one has told him yet!

Made in India in the 1980s the J stands for Henry Jacobsen , Henry made Reproduction Hand driven Berliners , Open motor works Style 2 and Trademark machines , we sold a lot of them in the UK , 20 Hand wind Berliners were sold to a European Dealer and I have seen these in Auction in Hamburg make £3000 ! BUT all the reproduction machines had tell tale signs which should alert any knowledgeable buyer to see they weren't original , such as the wrong base profile on the Berliner and a painted casting , and Hexagonal nuts on the other machines instead of square nuts and misspelling on parts of the transfers etc ! The Trademarks were sold in USA by " Yesterday once again " and one appears in a Sherlock Holmes film !

Oh.

[Steve]

Whoever made it can't spell "Great Britain"!!!

Otherwise it does look genuine. You have to wonder though how someone who has little to no interest in gramophones just happens to magic up one of the rarest and most coveted soundboxes any collector would want. I mean, seriously, in 30 odd years of collecting I've never seen one of these for sale. If anything one of a couple of dealers might have horse traded to get one back in the day to complete a trademark machine.

Clearly the Ebay seller has no idea what he's got. I'm surprised no one has told him yet!

Made in India in the 1980s the J stands for Henry Jacobsen , Henry made Reproduction Hand driven Berliners , Open motor works Style 2 and Trademark machines , we sold a lot of them in the UK , 20 Hand wind Berliners were sold to a European Dealer and I have seen these in Auction in Hamburg make £3000 ! BUT all the reproduction machines had tell tale signs which should alert any knowledgeable buyer to see they weren't original , such as the wrong base profile on the Berliner and a painted casting , and Hexagonal nuts on the other machines instead of square nuts and misspelling on parts of the transfers etc ! The Trademarks were sold in USA by " Yesterday once again " and one appears in a Sherlock Holmes film !

Thanks for the confirmation, Mike. Very interesting. I was aware of the Barry Williamson repros and I know his soundboxes had a 'P' in lieu of the 'J' to avoid confusion but I had no idea about the Indian copies.

Will watch this auction with interest.

[Curt A]

The misspelling is obviously a dead giveaway, but not everyone would notice...

I was offered a wristwatch onetime that was supposed to be a high end piece. The guy was selling it cheap, because he needed the money. It was supposedly a Swiss watch, but in tiny print on the back it was engraved with "Made in Switchinternet"... Otherwise, it looked convincingly real, with a Bentley logo.

A friend who also collects gold and silver coins showed me a box of counterfeit "old" American "silver'' dollars dated from the 1880s to 1920. All weighed exactly the correct weight, but were brass with silver plating - made in China, of course... He said the only way you can tell them from real ones, without drilling holes, was to drop them on a hard surface - real ones kind of "ring", while fake ones sound dead and make a thud.

[Ahmed]

I'd have never guessed there are passable copies of these around!

Many thanks for the clarification indeed, and here's hoping this thread will help someone make an informed decision before bidding on this or another replica in the future

[poodling around]

Very interesting indeed.

[jamiegramo]

I find this listing very interesting. Were it not for the spelling mistake on the back you could easily think this item was 120 years old! The seller appears to be aware of the mistake as he repeats it in the listing but does not point it out. I think this is a mistake as it may come back to haunt him if the item is returned.

With in excess of 32 watchers (2 days ago) and already up to £390 with a week to go, he will loose out on PayPal fees if the item is returned.

For people unfamiliar with the Clark Johnson Soundbox, I feel I should point out that the ‘J’ on the front is normal for most original examples as well as copies. This thread appears to be suggesting that the presence of a ‘J’ might mean it’s always a copy attributed to Henry Jacobsen.

I have seen Indian copies of this Soundbox but not as good as this. I had one of the copy Style No. 2 machines when they first appeared back in the 80’s. The differences to an original are obvious to an experienced collector but I have also seen them sell for high prices, presumably as thought to be original.

[Curt A]

I sent the seller a heads up warning, but as usual, he knows more than anyone and said I am wrong it HAS to be original... he GOOGLED it...
Dumba$$...