Suspect HMV101

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Curt A
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Re: Suspect HMV101

Post by Curt A »

OK, the colors are wrong... That doesn't make them "over-restored", just "incorrectly restored" in a technical sense. Anyway, were these restorations done to increase their desirability and price based on color (green for example)? Are green ones or yellow ones more desirable or costly? Are Ministry of Supply machines more expensive or rare? Even if Ministry of Supply machines are scarce, you already know they only come in black and so would anyone else that would consider paying a premium, AND he is not marketing it as a "Ministry of Supply" machine. Maybe it was originally a MOS machine that he decided to restore in green, because he doesn't like black or didn't realize that for the sake of originality it should only be restored in black...

I really don't know the market for these, so is he asking a price that would be close to an original in excellent condition? He states clearly that they are "restored", but doesn't say they are concours correct restorations, so I don't believe he is trying to fool anyone... My opinion is that the seller is an excellent restorer, who may not know all the specific details to be 100% correct. If he did know them, I think you might have a problem discerning his restorations from very nice originals...

If someone wants a nice looking portable and doesn't want to fix a project, these seem to fit that market. You guys who are experts know the difference and I doubt you will be talked in to buying one, but I would rather see a newbie, or someone who just wants one for decor, buy one of these than an Indian fake monstrosity... Just my opinion.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
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"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
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gramophone-georg
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Re: Suspect HMV101

Post by gramophone-georg »

Honestly, I like all his machines but the "goat leather luxury" one is a bit too lipsticked for my taste.
Hope youse UK guys have your nitroglycerin capsules handy for when I debut my dustbin rescue HMV no. 32 "Speedster"! :D :lol:
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek

gramophoneshane
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Re: Suspect HMV101

Post by gramophoneshane »

Curt A wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:18 pm OK, the colors are wrong... That doesn't make them "over-restored", just "incorrectly restored" in a technical sense. Anyway, were these restorations done to increase their desirability and price based on color (green for example)? Are green ones or yellow ones more desirable or costly? Are Ministry of Supply machines more expensive or rare? Even if Ministry of Supply machines are scarce, you already know they only come in black and so would anyone else that would consider paying a premium, AND he is not marketing it as a "Ministry of Supply" machine. Maybe it was originally a MOS machine that he decided to restore in green, because he doesn't like black or didn't realize that for the sake of originality it should only be restored in black...

I really don't know the market for these, so is he asking a price that would be close to an original in excellent condition? He states clearly that they are "restored", but doesn't say they are concours correct restorations, so I don't believe he is trying to fool anyone... My opinion is that the seller is an excellent restorer, who may not know all the specific details to be 100% correct. If he did know them, I think you might have a problem discerning his restorations from very nice originals...

If someone wants a nice looking portable and doesn't want to fix a project, these seem to fit that market. You guys who are experts know the difference and I doubt you will be talked in to buying one, but I would rather see a newbie, or someone who just wants one for decor, buy one of these than an Indian fake monstrosity... Just my opinion.
Over restored to look newer than new.
Sparkling shiny chrome, fantasy colours and finishes, and a bright shiny decal slapped on.
Welcome to the 21st century 101.
Some clever wording gives the illusion these are honest restoration but are clearly meant to deceive an unsuspecting buyer.
Why else would you list so many over priced over restored and wrongly restored portables together in one place unless they're hoping some fool thinks he's found some rare immaculately restored variation worth the asking price?

For the same cost or less, these could be properly restored with the same skills, correct colours, plating and decals, still make a healthy profit with a reasonable turn over of quality stock that even knowledgeable collector might consider buying.
I also get the feeling they'd have more chance selling these monstrousities being advertised honestly as new modern colours with flawless gleaming chrome that look better than new.
People pay more for hot rodded cars so why not hot rodded gramophones too?
Just don't try passing off a T bucket as a restored model T

Dulcetto
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Re: Suspect HMV101

Post by Dulcetto »

gramophoneshane wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:44 am
Curt A wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:18 pm OK, the colors are wrong... That doesn't make them "over-restored", just "incorrectly restored" in a technical sense. Anyway, were these restorations done to increase their desirability and price based on color (green for example)? Are green ones or yellow ones more desirable or costly? Are Ministry of Supply machines more expensive or rare? Even if Ministry of Supply machines are scarce, you already know they only come in black and so would anyone else that would consider paying a premium, AND he is not marketing it as a "Ministry of Supply" machine. Maybe it was originally a MOS machine that he decided to restore in green, because he doesn't like black or didn't realize that for the sake of originality it should only be restored in black...

I really don't know the market for these, so is he asking a price that would be close to an original in excellent condition? He states clearly that they are "restored", but doesn't say they are concours correct restorations, so I don't believe he is trying to fool anyone... My opinion is that the seller is an excellent restorer, who may not know all the specific details to be 100% correct. If he did know them, I think you might have a problem discerning his restorations from very nice originals...

If someone wants a nice looking portable and doesn't want to fix a project, these seem to fit that market. You guys who are experts know the difference and I doubt you will be talked in to buying one, but I would rather see a newbie, or someone who just wants one for decor, buy one of these than an Indian fake monstrosity... Just my opinion.
Over restored to look newer than new.
Sparkling shiny chrome, fantasy colours and finishes, and a bright shiny decal slapped on.
Welcome to the 21st century 101.
Some clever wording gives the illusion these are honest restoration but are clearly meant to deceive an unsuspecting buyer.
Why else would you list so many over priced over restored and wrongly restored portables together in one place unless they're hoping some fool thinks he's found some rare immaculately restored variation worth the asking price?

For the same cost or less, these could be properly restored with the same skills, correct colours, plating and decals, still make a healthy profit with a reasonable turn over of quality stock that even knowledgeable collector might consider buying.
I also get the feeling they'd have more chance selling these monstrousities being advertised honestly as new modern colours with flawless gleaming chrome that look better than new.
People pay more for hot rodded cars so why not hot rodded gramophones too?
Just don't try passing off a T bucket as a restored model T
Very well said !

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Steve
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Re: Suspect HMV101

Post by Steve »

Personally speaking I care not if he's offering pink versions with gold spots. They are quite obviously restored to look like new and there is a market out there for customised machines but I feel he's overpriced them and made it difficult to unload them anyway.

If anything with so many available, it is fairly obvious to anyone that they have all been recovered and replated etc. One on its own would be more suspicious but he's listed quite a few and is not shy in stating on the listings that they've been restored.

My biggest worry would be receiving a machine without a horn at all. I asked for a custom coloured 102 and received a welcomed response suggesting this service might be offered. However, I noticed a 102 without a single photo managing to include the horn. What colour is it I wondered so I asked for a photo or two. Despite promises of further photos being sent, nothing has been received after 3 months!

FWIW I like the green 102D with MOS instruction plaque etc. Needless to add I'm not going to buy it.

JerryVan
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Re: Suspect HMV101

Post by JerryVan »

gramophoneshane wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:44 am
Just don't try passing off a T bucket as a restored model T
Amen! Now you're speaking my language!!! ;)

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Curt A
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Re: Suspect HMV101

Post by Curt A »

OK, I get it... I don't like chrome or fantasy colors, either, but is that the only complaint?

If they were nickel plated and re-covered with original colors and looked like new, would that be acceptable? He seems to have good, basic restoration skills, but he is using the wrong guidelines... Who knows what these looked like before he got them... At least he isn't painting them with chalk paint and making them into portable liquor cabinets...

I'm not saying he's right, but why not suggest to him that he uses his skills with traditional colors and plating.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

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Steve
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Re: Suspect HMV101

Post by Steve »

He's already using traditional plating - chrome, nickel and gold. The only variation is the colours of the rexine cloth which underscores the whole restoration and "new" ideal to my mind. He's not trying to mislead anyone. They're not rare machines, if you want a mint original one, just go and buy one.

He's more than likely restoring complete wrecks beyond the pale.

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