A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

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Raphael
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A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by Raphael »

For years, 24 to be precise, I have heard nothing but carping about eBay, and I must confess I am responsible for my fair share. I have purposely minimized my eBay sales and used them more as a direct marketing tool. It's a formula that has worked for me and I'm not about to change that strategy. But something else has come into the picture: the proliferation of "auction houses" that are merely on-line only. Don't ever try to attend one of these auctions in person, as you won't even be let in the door. "Auctioneers" are often at-home, drinking a beer, and watching their commissions mount up.

These on-line auctions, and others that have actual, live attendees, charge a Buyer's Premium ranging up to 30%. I assume the seller's premium is near to that as well. Take a look at the math of an actual example that occurred a few days ago when I sold an item on eBay:

Total cost to Buyer: $5950 (0% Buyer's Premium)
My net proceeds: $5483 (about 8%)

Had I sold the same item through an on-line auction house, assuming the buyer only wanted to spend $5950:

Hammer price: $4760
Buyer's Premium: $1190 (assuming a rate of 25%)
Total cost to buyer: $5950

My net proceeds: $3570 (assuming a Seller's Premium up to 25%)

Even if, as a seller, I negotiated a lower Seller's Premium, my net proceeds would be considerably less than on eBay.

Another factor involved here is the total lack of guarantee or responsibility by the auctioneer. Savvy buyers will factor such risk into their final bid price.

Yes, eBay can be a pain in the neck, but their policies promote a system that provides some level of assurance to a buyer, and guarantees payments to the seller. Compare that to a friend of mine who recently bought a complex mechanical item on Live Auctioneers that was described as "not working, needs repair" and when he received it, indeed, the entire mechanism was missing. The auction house said, basically, "we told you it needed repair" and refused a return of the item.

I am sure there are plenty who will disagree with my analysis, and refuse to have anything to do with eBay. My purpose here is not to promote eBay (heaven forbid!) but to demonstrate that in a changing world we have to keep an open mind as to how these changes affect us.

Raphael

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fmblizz
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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by fmblizz »

Thanks Raphael, I have never sold an item at an auction house online or otherwise with the exception of Ebay. Your example and analogy insures the most likely I never will..

Eye opener.

Blizz

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Inigo
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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by Inigo »

Thanks for this quiet, precise and clever analysis. And it's done by someone who sells expensive things everyday, very fast, and I assume, by many different ways...
Inigo

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Steve
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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by Steve »

What Raphael says is basically true but its been that way since Ebay started really.

The one point I agree with wholeheartedly is that basic level of assurance a buyer gets when using Ebay. Believe it or not that actually makes it better for the seller as the buyer knowing he cannot be conned out of his/her money without redress (unlike with many auction houses), is likely to bid more freely and therefore be encouraged to pay the market price for something. Sure, there will always be cheapskates, and I've met quite a few in my time, but they more often than not get beaten to the punch by more serious buyers who know they can bid confidently because of Ebays buyer protection.

I would estimate that 95% of my collection purchased since 1998 has been bought online and "blind" with approximately 85% of that coming from Ebay sellers with the rest being online specialist sellers known to me and direct face to face buying.

That's a big quota. Without Ebays protection I wouldn't have risked some of these purchases. Admittedly, even with all the inevitable questions I ask and specific photos I request beforehand, most items are a little disappointing in the flesh when they arrive for various reasons but apart from a few exceptional instances where things have gone very wrong, most sellers appear willing to negotiate after the event. When things do go badly wrong, Ebay is fairly sympathetic to the cause and attempts to correct the situation.

It's not perfect but with many real world shops closing down and people passing away, it's probably the best we're going to get now.

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PeterF
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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by PeterF »

Just like any other purchase, if a buyer sees something that they want for their collection, they should assess the price against the available information and any potential risk associated with the purchase.

And then they decide whether or not to pull the trigger. Price includes any combination of commissions and fees and taxes and shipping. Look at the bottom line and decide whether it’s worth it.

I buy stuff from eBay and most of the time it arrives exactly as good as, or better than, expected. I also buy stuff from the hybrid online/in-person auctions that Raffy sniffs at. A lot of that stuff has a 2-word description and two or three tiny photos…and goes cheap, even including the supposedly exorbitant fees that Raffy’s purse can’t seem to withstand. And quite a lot of stuff from the latter type of auction reappears soon afterwards, cleaner and with better photography and puffed up descriptions, on eBay. And it often sells for way more than the auction price of a few days/weeks before.

Make no mistake, there have been many times where I have bought stuff on inadequate information and been disappointed, but it’s a risk I have willingly assumed each time.

Bottom line is that we are lucky as collectors to have so many different ways of finding and selling our stuff, and not much to complain about. Fees and taxes are a small price to pay for the broader availability of stuff, convenience, and time savings.

But some people just like to grouse, as we all know.

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Raphael
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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by Raphael »

PeterF wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:53 am Just like any other purchase, if a buyer sees something that they want for their collection, they should assess the price against the available information and any potential risk associated with the purchase.

And then they decide whether or not to pull the trigger. Price includes any combination of commissions and fees and taxes and shipping. Look at the bottom line and decide whether it’s worth it.

I buy stuff from eBay and most of the time it arrives exactly as good as, or better than, expected. I also buy stuff from the hybrid online/in-person auctions that Raffy sniffs at. A lot of that stuff has a 2-word description and two or three tiny photos…and goes cheap, even including the supposedly exorbitant fees that Raffy’s purse can’t seem to withstand. And quite a lot of stuff from the latter type of auction reappears soon afterwards, cleaner and with better photography and puffed up descriptions, on eBay. And it often sells for way more than the auction price of a few days/weeks before.

Make no mistake, there have been many times where I have bought stuff on inadequate information and been disappointed, but it’s a risk I have willingly assumed each time.

Bottom line is that we are lucky as collectors to have so many different ways of finding and selling our stuff, and not much to complain about. Fees and taxes are a small price to pay for the broader availability of stuff, convenience, and time savings.

But some people just like to grouse, as we all know.
To begin with, my name is Raphael. Some of my friends call me Ray. That's the extent of my name and nicknames. Your insistence on referring to me as "Raffy" is borne out of a dislike for me and to which you feel you can obliquely insult me. I could refer to you as "PeePee", but for now will refrain from that.

Secondly, my original post was meant to re-open thinking about eBay from a sellers point of view. Not to recommend any format over the other for buyers, a different topic for another day.

Raphael

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PeterF
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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by PeterF »

Ok Ray, I’ll try to remember.

Just about everything I said above also applies to selling, but I discussed it from the buyer’s point of view because most of our members are buyers and occasional sellers, not dealers.

- PeePee

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Lee
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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by Lee »

Actually, I've sold lots of items on Ebay. It never fails to amaze me what people will buy. I had a common Edison phonograph crane slide that looked like it had been dug up in the backyard sell for more than two decent reproductions would have cost. Books, wind-up tin toys, anything I can easily ship. Accurate descriptions and lots of photos. I put it out there and it usually sells. I sometimes buy things from online auction houses and am generally satisfied even though I agree that the fees do seem a little over the top. But...if there is something out there that you want and the only one that you can find at that particular moment is right there, so be it. I like to at least have the option.

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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by epigramophone »

Like most collectors I occasionally buy and sell machines to vary and enhance my collection.
My experience of eBay has been generally positive, but with one or two exceptions. Firstly their tendency to side with the buyer right or wrong in the event of a dispute, ignoring the fact that it is the seller who pays their fees, and secondly their introduction of fees on postage costs for which there is no justification.

As for conventional auction houses, I first noticed the steep rise in their fees when Covid forced them to close their doors to the public and operate on line only. It would be interesting to see a comparison of their operating costs between viewing and bidding in the saleroom and bidding on line only. I cannot believe that the latter is more expensive. Perhaps an auctioneer would like to tell us.

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Re: A CONTRARIAN OPINION OF EBAY

Post by the padre304 »

Peepee, :D :D :x

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