HMV Gramophone Automatic No1

[OrthoFan]

The pedestal was supplied with the machine at no extra cost, according to the catalog. It easy to imagine these getting separated from the machine.
BobHMV Automatic Catalog Description.jpg

At least in Germany by Electrola the pedestal had very well costed extra!
The machine itself (only sold in walnut) costed 3500 RM, while the „remote“ costed 110 RM extra.

Technically not a "re-entrant" model as it only has the two chambers similar to a 157 (albeit mounted horizontally). The large (wide) cabinet is needed for the mechanism and the throw of the record placing arm but these have much smaller horns than the large HMV re-entrant models,

I don‘t think this is true - the horn in it‘s structure looks exactly as the big Re-Entrant horns. It also sounds very nice, but not as nice as the 203 because of the oddly placed horn to you’re feet.
At least better than any Victor machine.

According to a contemporary review--1927--the horn is nine feet long ---

"The reviewer of THE GRAMOPHONE trade magazine gushes in December of 1927:

“This is one of the most uncanny instruments we have ever seen. The gramophone part of it contains an improved form of orthophonic horn, equivalent, we were informed, to a straight horn 9 feet long. (…) The special feature (…) is the automatic record changer and repeater. The “magazine” will hold 20 records. 12 inch or 10 inch records can be mixed up indiscriminately. (…) The record is picked up from the magazine and placed on the turntable, the sound-box and needle are gently carried down into the first groove and the band begins to play. When the record is finished, the sound-box is lifted up, the record ejected into a compartment lined with rubber and felt, and a new record is placed on the turntable. (…) If you don’t happen to like any particular record you just press a button and it is summarily dismissed and the next record is played. Or, if you like the record so much that you want to hear it again, you just touch a lever, and the record is repeated. Could anything be more convenient? It only remains now for H.M.V. to add an attachment which serves out coffee and cigars.”"

FROM --http://myvintagetv.com/updatepages1/HMV1A.htm

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Interestingly, the second generation Automatic Orthophonic Victrola, the 1035X -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/10-35.htm -- was fitted with a smaller horn than was used on the original Credenza, and much smaller than the 10-50's 7 foot horn. It was the same metal 2-chamber horn installed in the VV-8-35, though I've yet to find anything about it's length compared to the standard 6-foot wooden Credenza horn.

OrthoFan

[Phono48]

Technically not a "re-entrant" model as it only has the two chambers similar to a 157 (albeit mounted horizontally).

Sorry to disagree Steve, but to save any confusion to others, it's the Automatic No.2 that has the smaller horn. According to "His Masters' Gramophone" the No.1 has the same horn as the 202, but turned to a horizontal position.
Barry

[Steve]

The pedestal was supplied with the machine at no extra cost, according to the catalog. It easy to imagine these getting separated from the machine.
BobHMV Automatic Catalog Description.jpg

At least in Germany by Electrola the pedestal had very well costed extra!
The machine itself (only sold in walnut) costed 3500 RM, while the „remote“ costed 110 RM extra.

Technically not a "re-entrant" model as it only has the two chambers similar to a 157 (albeit mounted horizontally). The large (wide) cabinet is needed for the mechanism and the throw of the record placing arm but these have much smaller horns than the large HMV re-entrant models,

I don‘t think this is true - the horn in it‘s structure looks exactly as the big Re-Entrant horns. It also sounds very nice, but not as nice as the 203 because of the oddly placed horn to you’re feet.
At least better than any Victor machine.

But that's no different than saying the 157 was a re-entrant which it was never catalogued as, presumably due to the twin exits as opposed to the quadruple type usually associated with the re-entrants.

[Steve]

Technically not a "re-entrant" model as it only has the two chambers similar to a 157 (albeit mounted horizontally).

Sorry to disagree Steve, but to save any confusion to others, it's the Automatic No.2 that has the smaller horn. According to "His Masters' Gramophone" the No.1 has the same horn as the 202, but turned to a horizontal position.
Barry

That is definitely not a 202 horn in there. I'm not sure from the poor photos but it doesn't appear to have four chambers either, only two? Notwithstanding this, unless that photo has been severely manipulated and stretched horizontally (which it doesn't appear to have been), that horn is a completely different proportion to a 202 or indeed any of the upright models.

[OrthoFan]

I'm not sure from the poor photos but it doesn't appear to have four chambers either, only two? That horn is a completely different proportion to a 202 or indeed any of the upright models.

(Click Image to View Full Size)

I upped the brightness and resolution and can clearly see the center "heart" encasing the four chambers--typical of all HMV re-entrant horns. (It looks very much like the type installed on the HMV 163, in fact.) As you know, the two chamber HMV 157 horn simply shows an open mouth with no divider in the center. It also differs from the bifurcated metal horns (British) Columbia installed in their Viva-Tonal cabinet models.

I agree that the horn looks very elongated horizontally, but I also see some distortion in the photo, perhaps caused by the cellphone camera's lens. Judging by the size of the record on the turntable, which looks to be ten inches--possibly 12--the horn measures at least 30+ inches from side to side in its horizontal position.



OrthoFan

[NEKTREG]

I'm not sure from the poor photos but it doesn't appear to have four chambers either, only two? That horn is a completely different proportion to a 202 or indeed any of the upright models.

Screenshot 2024-02-22 100900-modified.jpg
(Click Image to View Full Size)

I upped the brightness and resolution and can clearly see the center "heart" encasing the four chambers--typical of all HMV re-entrant horns. (It looks very much like the type installed on the HMV 163, in fact.) As you know, the two chamber HMV 157 horn simply shows an open mouth with no divider in the center. It also differs from the bifurcated metal horns (British) Columbia installed in their Viva-Tonal cabinet models.

I agree that the horn looks very elongated horizontally, but I also see some distortion in the photo, perhaps caused by the cellphone camera's lens. Judging by the size of the record on the turntable, which looks to be ten inches--possibly 12--the horn measures at least 30+ inches from side to side in its horizontal position.



OrthoFan

Totally agree with that!
For comparison the horn of my 203

[Steve]

I'm not sure from the poor photos but it doesn't appear to have four chambers either, only two? That horn is a completely different proportion to a 202 or indeed any of the upright models.

Screenshot 2024-02-22 100900-modified.jpg
(Click Image to View Full Size)

I upped the brightness and resolution and can clearly see the center "heart" encasing the four chambers--typical of all HMV re-entrant horns. (It looks very much like the type installed on the HMV 163, in fact.) As you know, the two chamber HMV 157 horn simply shows an open mouth with no divider in the center. It also differs from the bifurcated metal horns (British) Columbia installed in their Viva-Tonal cabinet models.

I agree that the horn looks very elongated horizontally, but I also see some distortion in the photo, perhaps caused by the cellphone camera's lens. Judging by the size of the record on the turntable, which looks to be ten inches--possibly 12--the horn measures at least 30+ inches from side to side in its horizontal position.



OrthoFan

Totally agree with that!
For comparison the horn of my 203

Thanks for the upload. I didn't want to take the grille off my 202 to show what you have done but I think you've confirmed that the 202/3 horns were in fact different to the 1A's, just as I thought!

[Steve]

Technically not a "re-entrant" model as it only has the two chambers similar to a 157 (albeit mounted horizontally).

Sorry to disagree Steve, but to save any confusion to others, it's the Automatic No.2 that has the smaller horn. According to "His Masters' Gramophone" the No.1 has the same horn as the 202, but turned to a horizontal position.
Barry

No apology necessary, Barry, we are all here to share information and to hopefully learn about these fascinating machines. I don't have the book to hand at the moment to check what you've claimed it states but I think it might be incorrect. The 1A horn would have been a narrower horn in proportion to the 202/3 horn (if the horn was turned vertically), as our friend is ably demonstrating above.

[OrthoFan]

Here's another screen shot of an HMV Automatic 1A horn. (This one is the door-less model described in the link I posted earlier in this thread, which nobody probably read... )

FROM -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi70G1Rzqpo

It looks to be about the same as the horn installed in HMV 1A in the OP's post and is obviously a re-entrant style four chamber horn, though compared to the 202/203's horn, I agree that it's very different. This leads me to believe that a horn specifically designed for this model was installed, contrary to what has been reported.

It's interesting to note, though, that according to the contemporary review of the 1A (which appears in my earlier post) a NINE foot horn was described. Perhaps a conventional 202 horn was installed in the first demonstration models, but never made it's way to production.

It would be interesting to know the dimensions of this horn. I'm wondering if the one or two lucky owners of an HMV 1A also own a tape measure....

OrthoFan

[Steve]

Someone please show me where it states the 1A has an identical horn to a 202/3!