How Do Folks Come Up With Prices For Records?

[Dischoard]

Is there a hard copy Record Price Guide for 78s that folks consult? Is it all eBay Completed Auction listings (and how do you go about the records that've never appeared on eBay?)? Do folks use Popsike? I've been curious after seeing records pop up and I realize how that's one thing I've never really delved into. Anybody want to share their tips and tricks?

[epigramophone]

Price lists issued by the leading record dealers would be a good place to start. They have the expertise which most eBay sellers lack.

[gramophone-georg]

Price lists issued by the leading record dealers would be a good place to start. They have the expertise which most eBay sellers lack.

Yeah, but completed auctions on eBay tell you what buyers were willing to pay.

It's tough to come up with a set sale price. For me, I have decades of buying and selling 78s, but mainly on auction. This is why I always state I'll consider offers when I post records here. I can only remember one time I turned down an offer, and it was an offer of $5 on a 52000 series Golden Gate Orch. Edison DD in E+.

If you're interested in serious collecting, you should try for copies of Rust's Jazz and Dance Band discographies, especially if you are interested in records by certain artists. For example, if you are a Bix fan you shouldn't be bidding without a discography because there were a few exact and convincing imitators out there. You may be surprised that a record has Tommy Dorsey (or even Jimmy!) on trumpet, Benny Goodman or Artie Shaw on sax, Glenn Miller playing jazz TB, etc. Lots of big Swing Era names spent ten years or better in the studios before finding fame, either with fledgling bands of their own or as sidemen. Ben Selvin and Fred Rich records are always full of them, not to mention Whiteman and Jean Goldkette. If you find any Bennie Moten records, besides being fantastic you may have Count Basie and Jimmy Rushing in the band. Charlie Johnson's Paradise Ten will feature the great Benny Carter. Blue Steele had Kenny Sargent later of Casa Loma fame. Leo Reisman featured Bubber Miley for awhile. Carolina Club Orchestra records are usually Hal Kemp or Paul Specht. You'll find Bunny Berigan on early Freddy Martin, Hal Kemp, and Fred Rich records (to name a few). Fred MacMurray (think "My Three Sons") shows up on sax and vocals on a couple Gus Arnheim discs. Hal Kemp begat Kay Kyser, whose early 40000 series Victors are very fun and quite unlike his Brunswick and Columbia offerings. Horace Heidt had a super hot West Coast band on Victor long before the "Musical Knights". Glenn Miller recorded with the Dorsey Brothers' Orchestra, and the Dorsey Brothers' Concert Orchestra incorporated Hal Kemp's great band incl. John Scott Trotter. Woody Herman cut his first records with Tom Gerun(ovitch), Vaughn Monroe with Larry Funk, Johnny McAfee with Johnny Hamp, Jack Teagarden with Roger Wolfe Kahn and Irving Mills. Ferde Grofe and Eugene Ormandy both recorded dance band sides, Grofe on Columbia and Ormandy on OKeh.

Then there are the singers and other personalities with roots in the jazz and big bands- Billie Holiday started with the pre- fame Benny Goodman band in 1933, Lena Horne with Noble Sissle on Decca, Frank Sinatra with Harry James, Scrappy Lambert with Ben Bernie's great underrated band- as half of the duet of Lambert and Hillpot. Mike Douglas got his start with Kay Kyser, Merv Griffin with Freddy Martin, Perry Como with Ted Weems, Doris Day with Les Brown, etc. Interestingly enough, Tommy Dorsey wasn't just instrumental in propelling Sinatra to fame and ushering in 'the age of the singer', he was also insistent on featuring a young kid named Elvis Presley on the Brother's "Stage Show" January through March 1956, for six episodes- MONTHS before the Ed Sullivan debut... and the Brothers didn't censor the hip shaking, either! Tommy thought Elvis would go far, but didn't live to see it.

And on and on. It really is quite a fantastic rabbit hole, and lots of these records are quite uncommon.

[smitharthur]

EBay is an absolute joke. And it is sinful what it has done to the industry, and to prices.

Condition and grading has become a pseudo science, as one person's VG is another's G.

I think the best thing to do is to pick the brain of a dealer that you know and trust, regarding grading.

Regarding prices? If a person is willing to pay what an asking price is, that is its value. But, eBay still drives me nuts.

A

[gramophone-georg]

EBay is an absolute joke. And it is sinful what it has done to the industry, and to prices.

Condition and grading has become a pseudo science, as one person's VG is another's G.

I think the best thing to do is to pick the brain of a dealer that you know and trust, regarding grading.

Regarding prices? If a person is willing to pay what an asking price is, that is its value. But, eBay still drives me nuts.

A

Totally disagree. Thanks to eBay, I have records in my collection I'd otherwise only have been able to find in books. I've also developed a list of sellers who know what they are doing and I can trust on grading. Grading is pretty specific- where you run into problems is when you buy from amateurs. That's what feedback is for.

eBay hasn't done anything to prices- buyers have. If you don't like the price just move on. There are still bargains out there in the wild, but they are becoming more scarce by the day.

[smitharthur]

I enjoy the thrill of the hunt, the lower prices, and not risking shipping, that buying locally offers. I guess the valid points I made are not valid to you.

[gramophone-georg]

I enjoy the thrill of the hunt, the lower prices, and not risking shipping, that buying locally offers. I guess the valid points I made are not valid to you.

Fair enough. As I became more advanced at collecting, I started buying mail order from auctions before the internet so I guess it depends on one's comfort zone. And again- regarding shipping- it depends on whether you are dealing with an amateur or a pro. I probably buy up to $1K of records monthly, and can't remember the last broken one. I also have shipped thousands of records all over the world, and one arrived broken.

[smitharthur]

There are firsts for everything. Maybe I will buy my first 78 from eBay. But just looking at the prices is enough to make me want to run.

[GlensterTX]

I’m a real dinosaur when it comes to collecting! I’m that irritating geezer who repeatedly tells you about the stack of Okeh race records he bought for 50 cents each and the good old days of driving through rural Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, West Virginia, stopping at un-picked-over antique stores and coming home with huge stacks of records, good hot-dance and jazz ones, all for a relative pittance.

However rosy those days were, they’re long gone. Way back when we had price guides by Les Docks of San Antonio and even then we were incensed at some of his ridiculous price suggestions: “What??!! Only $200 for a mint Danny Altiere and His Orchestra on a small-label Vocalion?? Is he crazy??” Well, nowadays just about the only way to get a clue is to research the “Sold” results on various auctions, as others have mentioned. Not as much fun, but you do what you gotta do!

By the way, the latest edition of Rust’s “Jazz Records” can be legally downloaded for free from the publisher’s website:

https://78records.wordpress.com/free-on ... 1934-rust/
(Scroll down to almost the very bottom of the page. )

You’ll also find many specialized “niche” discographies that are invaluable for research - it really is a treasure trove!

[gramophone-georg]

There are firsts for everything. Maybe I will buy my first 78 from eBay. But just looking at the prices is enough to make me want to run.

Give me an idea of what you are looking for/ at, who the seller is, and the prices via PM and I can likely advise you. I have been collecting for 50+ years and have been buying on eBay for 24. I also know of other sources I'd be happy to share with you.