Selling service on eBay?

[phonophan79]

First... is it even a violation of terms for a seller to sell a service as opposed to an item?

Second... here it is... what do you guys think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0535271277

TEXT FROM AUCTION:

What you are paying for, is a reasonable fee, for me to examine your Sound Box and the return Priority Postage. I will send you an estimate, and should you elect for me to repair your Sound Box, upon completion I will send you an invoice in a private eBay listing. Please see Price Schedule at the bottom of this page.

For the most part, I can make repairs to almost any Orthophonic handed me. If your Sound Box has cracks as shown in the second picture, then it cannot be disassembled, however I can still make repairs to it. Often the results can be as good as a complete rebuild! One or two small holes or dents to the Diaphragm will not present much of a problem. Holes that are not too large can always be filled in, and small dents usually do not affect sound quality. There is however a point where it would be a waste of money and time. If you are in doubt, please send me a few good pictures. I will be more than happy to work with you in using any extra good parts you may have, in doing repairs or a complete rebuild.

I have been professionally repairing / rebuilding Orthophonic Sound Boxes since 1973. I was the first technician to be interviewed in an article on the Orthophonic by Albert Sefl in the Journal of The American Phonograph Society in 1975*. I worked on my first Orthophonic Sound Box in 1967 and my first Exhibition in 1964. With this many years of experience I am able to assure the highest level of performance at the most reasonable cost to you. Anything deemed unnecessary, will be avoided, unless it is at your request!

Some of my feedback.

Excellent! Motor starts like a turbo. No more lag. Kudos. Perfect as always!A++ February 2

Doing business w/ this extremely knowledgeable honest seller since 1968 pre-eBay. January 19/2010

Another impossible to find Edison part from a legendary phonograph repairman.A++ August 21/2008

Photos 2; 3; and 4 illustrate a simple repair on a Sound Box, that otherwise could not be disassembled. This one came in with an annoying buzzing and rattling in reproduction. The one missing ball-bearing had nothing at all to do with the buzzing, but nevertheless I did replace it. In this case the rubber decoupling ring was also replaced. The Total to my customer was $28.90. He was pleased, and there's nothing in the world that pleases me more than a satisfied customer!

In the fourth photo you see a "worst case" scenario for ball-bearings, they must be replaced with a full set of new ball-bearings. I do not charge for the ball-bearings they are included in the installation fee. A bearing rebuild is needed in only around fifty per cent of most repairs, seldom on Sound Boxes made before July 1927. After the "new design" with the "Phase Plug" (photo 5 with and without phase plug) and a thinner Bearing Shaft was introduced in late 1927, several problems cropped up. In 1926, the percentage of zinc was quite high, and as a result, these Sound Boxes lost their gold plating within only months. To alleviate this problem, the zinc was reduced to a very low level; these are the ones that "swell, contort and crack", but the plating looks great! As a result, the bushing bearing races, do tend to be loose. Also at this time, the end caps are reversed, and a rubber grommet was placed over the ball-bearings; the sulfur in the rubber did cause rust to form on the ball-bearings. At some time in late 1928, a steel washer was placed between the rubber and balls, this in many cases exasperated the problem.

In the following Schedule, at the basic Price quoted, you may indeed receive your Sound Box returned to you sounding just great! As noted above, frequently the Ball-Bearing Pivot needs little or no work done to it! It would be a good idea to have me change the old decoupling rubber, but in sound quality there is only a slight improvement, however there is a vast gain in record preservation!

Basic Repair..........................$18.95

New Ball-Bearings installed..$19.95*

*With Basic Repair..................$9.95

New Rubber Decoupler........ $9.95

If your Sound Box can be taken apart, I can replace the Duralumin Diaphragm with a good original. Prices for a Diaphragm will vary from $15.00 to $35.00. A Diaphragm need not look perfect to sound just fine.

I can usually remove a broken Needle Thumb Screw, especially if someone has not made a mess of the job before I can get to it! There will be an extra $8.00 charge for this service. An original Victor Thumb Screw will cost $12.95.

Other miscellaneous small parts, such as Dust Caps will be offered at a reasonable price.

*If you can make out the term "float" function in this article, please disregard the explanation given. It is that soft rubber allows for a little vertical compliance. I do not wish to give an impression of being sour grapes, but it was I that taught Bob Waltrip how to work on the Othophonic. This was around 1975, some ten or so years before he started expounding on his talents as the only true exponent of reproducerdom.

I first met Bob Waltrip when he was living here in San Francisco in 1968. It was also in that year, that I worked on the Sound Box from his "cheap" little VV-7-11. Before he moved to Levelland Texas, he lived in Parker Arizona for a number of years, where he refinished Grand Pianos professionally (he did the most beautiful work). In 1975 or '76 on a visit back to San Francisco, to return a Piano Case, he came over to my shop with our mutual friend Frank Bourquin**. He asked if I could not do the work on an Orthophonic Sound Box that afternoon . I did the work with him standing over my shoulder, and him playing the game of forty questions.

In all fairness, over the years, he taught me much about the best techniques in good refinishing. With his short little stature (he verged on being a dwarf) he needed to do something a bit less strenuous to make a livelihood! The one thing that mostly ticked me off was when he borrowed (stole) my term "Floating Gaskets" some ten years after I first used it. In the last picture you can see what remains of the first one I did around 1977.

**This character can be Googled up, check up Frank Bourquin Cockette. Among business partners, friends, record and phonograph collectors and sundry rouges* that figured into my early years in this business are: Edward L. Linotti; Charles Siegfried; Albert (Al) Sefl; Thomas Pollard; Gregory J. Walsh; Arthur (Art) Wilmoth; Dominique McBride; Jon Lundburg; Perry George; Stephen Bedola*; Dr. Phillip Peterson*; Cecil Dancer; Peter Minton; Ihen Ingham; Jennifer Ellison; Carl DeFronzo; R. (Robert) Crumb; Terry Zwigoff ; Al Dodge; Bill Knorp; David Banks; Dave Rocco; Ron Pendergraft; David Cash, and in more recent years, Tim Gracyk; René Rondeau; Dade Thieriot; Bill Davis; Robert (Bobby Lee) Yarbrough, and that interloper Carsten Fischer.

Over the years, I have done reproducer work for everyone on the above list, with but one exception, R. Crumm, I cooked him a fried chicken dinner! Al Dodge and Terry Zwigoff were present at that meal, but yes, I have worked on Dodge's Victrola and Zwigoff's sound system!

As always, thank you for looking!

[WDC]

First, yes, it's absolutely a violation of eBay terms - but in a different way.
Service, AFAIK, is okay but he is offering his repair rates off eBay. But at eBay's crazy rates I truly sympathize with the seller. What many buyers do not see is that another percentage charged by eBay has to be added by the seller somewhere too for compensation. Call it the vicious circle of lofty prices.

The description does sound indeed very professional and the given repair rates seem to be absolutely reasonable, as I would say.

[larryh]

I could be wrong but I think he is violating ebay's policy of offering something for sale outside of his listing. In other words the price they collect is not what he is really charging thus circumventing their portion of the payment and listing fee to boot. It may run into problems at some point. But if its for real it sure sounds like a good deal!

Those reproducers are way beyond my limited knowledge.

Larry

[Brad]

I could be wrong but I think he is violating ebay's policy of offering something for sale outside of his listing. In other words the price they collect is not what he is really charging thus circumventing their portion of the payment and listing fee to boot. It may run into problems at some point. But if its for real it sure sounds like a good deal!

Those reproducers are way beyond my limited knowledge.

Larry

In the original listing it is stated that the charges would be billed in a "private ebay listing". I don't know what that is, but it seems to be within the ebay domain. I can't imagine ebay refusing ANY avenue to extract money from someone elses business transaction and I can imagine the bay has been partially hurt by Craigslist.

[larryh]

Brad,

I may be wrong, but my reading of ebay rules seems to indicate that offering to sell things, (services) off ebay but though a listing is a violation of the rules. But I have noticed over time that if a seller has a good deal of business with ebay they can flaunt the rules all they seem to want and nothing happens. Some of the expensive shipping charges come to mind!


Larry

[brianu]

Brad,

I may be wrong, but my reading of ebay rules seems to indicate that offering to sell things, (services) off ebay but though a listing is a violation of the rules. But I have noticed over time that if a seller has a good deal of business with ebay they can flaunt the rules all they seem to want and nothing happens. Some of the expensive shipping charges come to mind!


Larry

you wouldn't be selling something off of ebay if you mentioned in an existing listing that the other thing was available and could be sold through a separate ebay listing if someone was interested (I often do that when I sell a phonograph, if I know I have others for sale as well but don't have the time or inclination to list them all at once). ebay completely allows that, so long as you (1) don't end up selling the other thing off of ebay without creating a separate listing to do so AND (2) don't get reported for that (if you just go ahead and sell the other thing off ebay and no one reports it and ebay doesn't investigate, then you've gotten away with it, even though you violated the rules).

but that's a separate issue (using an existing listing to advertise and sell others items separately off of ebay) from the other question in the thread, being whether you can legitimately sell a service through an ebay listing. I didn't think ebay permitted that (that you had to be selling some physical thing), but I certainly see people doing it often enough.

[larryh]

Now I got my self stuck in this repair site.. I guess I didn't realize that when he said he would deliver in San Francisco that he also won't send one back though the mail. I sent a the 2.95 in order to have him check out my reproducer but as I went farther into the checkout I started to realize that might be the case.. I wrote him several times but so far I have not heard anything back.. I told him that if I was correct and he wouldn't ship any back then to just refund my payment.

I think its a bit odd to run a nationwide ad for local services that have a somewhat confusing set of guidelines attached. I know that I did it because people here in another thread about him said he did good work, they must all live in california? I am not out much if he doesn't respond but probably he simply hasn't had a chance to yet..

What are the other decent choices for orthophonic repairs?

Larry

[52089]

Larry,

I've used Peter for Orthophonic repairs and can tell you he will definitely send your reproducer back by mail anywhere you want. I think that since he is technically selling a service, and you can't really ship a service, his listings say pickup only. In other words, ebay doesn't offer a "not applicable" option, so this is as close as he can come.

When he's ready to do the actual repairs, he will usually create a separate ebay listing for the cost, and that will have the return shipping costs as part of the listing.

Hope that clears that up.

Kevin

[larryh]

Kevin,

Well that is good to hear. I thought it was odd that so many people had used him only locally. Yet most of the reading says he will only deliver it and will not ship them.. At least that is what I got out of the details. I have a Orthophonic Portable I bought when I was but a kid and so its been around over 50 years with me. It never quite sounded clear an I need a decent portable to play my standard cut records on as the Edison I have pretty much used up the available space in my small home.. I have a telefunken portable which actually has great sound but won't hardly play though a 10" side and is so light it twist around when your cranking it.. the large portable victor doesn't mar the surface and has somewhat larger tone but until I can hear the optimum sound I really don't know what its doing. I have a feeling it will suit the purpose well if I can get it all running right. I also need the motor worked on. Mechanic I am not and the other day I took the motor out due to a fast wow in the sound.. I saw a lot of pretty hard grease on it and scrapped it off the gears but to my dismay it now runs worse than before. I suppose it needed a good degreasing which would mean taking it all apart which I am not inclined to do.

Larry

[FloridaClay]

Peter is excellent, perhaps the best in the country when it comes to working on Orthophonic reproducers. I have had him work on several of mine. And of course he is not going to be able to give anybody a price up front until he has seen the reproducer. (Remember that most of these are pot metal affairs in various states of deterioration. This is NOT a simple matter like rebuilding a No. 2 Victor.)

I don't know where the poster got the notion that the reproducer would not be sent back. The very first sentence is "What you are paying for, is a reasonable fee, for me to examine your Sound Box and the return Priority Postage."

You send him your reproducer, he examines it and tells you what he can do for you and the cost and you then decide if you want the repairs. If not, you let him know that and he sends the reproducer back. If so, he fixes it and bills you the balance through eBay (the "private listing" he talks about--it works like a "buy it now"). eBay does not loose a nickel! When you pay, the repaired reproducer comes back to you.

There is nothing even remotely shady about this! I highly recommend Peter's services. He can do a lot to improve the performance of Ortho reproducers, even the ones that are so badly cracked they can't be taken apart.

Clay