My first Paillard spring motor rebuild - and last

[Jonsheff]

I am almost finished with a Paillard 217 motor for a 1919 Sonora Baby Grand and compared to Victrola motors, these seem sub standard, quirky and hard to get running right, anyone else have trouble rebuilding these? I have it running now but have a spring slip issue to troubleshoot still.

[gramophoneshane]

I've never had any kind of problem with getting a Paillard motor running, and ive literally done dozens of them.
I have not however, done any with a record counter, so.i can't comment on those specifically.
What seemed to be the problems you've encountered?

[Jonsheff]

I've never had any kind of problem with getting a Paillard motor running, and ive literally done dozens of them.
I have not however, done any with a record counter, so.i can't comment on those specifically.
What seemed to be the problems you've encountered?

I have rebuilt many Victrola motors so in comparison, this seems cheaply made in to me. Chrome plated vs Victrolas brass and nickel plated parts. The Pallard governor doesnt ride on ball bearimg ends like Victrola so it doesnt seem to spin as freely and takes some adjusting to get the worm gear lined up on the governor while getting it to spin freely. Also, the crank gear mech is way over engineered. They also use pins instead of screws in places that makes disassembly harder than it needs to be (tapping the pin out and aligning the holes to put it back in). Perhaps if i have done a few it would be easier. The only problem i have now is if winding tight one of the springs slips. I think i need to put a washer on the bottom end of the bottom spring barrel to lift it up and reduce the gap between the topmand bottom barrel. I put the washer on the top and think it belongs on the bottom. I am sure with another round of tinkering i can sort it out. Are any diagrams out there?

[Inigo]

Yes, the distance washers on the spring arbors are tricky. You'll have to find out where to place it, below the barrels, or in between, or on top of them... Maybe you'll need to try adding different washers until you achieve an adjustment that works... I've never seen Paillard motor schemes...

[Jonsheff]

I have the motor running well and figured out the sprimg barrel washer spacing but still having problem with winding, when it starts gettimg tight a sprimg slips, sounds like 2-3 slips before it catches again. I suspect i need to tighten the sprimg where it goes around the arbor, does anyone else agree?

[JerryVan]

I have the motor running well and figured out the sprimg barrel washer spacing but still having problem with winding, when it starts getting tight a spring slips, sounds like 2-3 slips before it catches again. I suspect i need to tighten the spring where it goes around the arbor, does anyone else agree?

No. Sounds as if it's slipping at the outer end. Slipping on the arbor would not allow you get any spring tension at all, while slipping at the outer end requires some amount of winding to overcome the grip of the outward pressure on the barrel. Then, it will slip until the tension is no longer sufficient to allow slippage. You wind it more, it slips again. Etc.... Your outer is not catching on the anchor.

[Jonsheff]

I have the motor running well and figured out the sprimg barrel washer spacing but still having problem with winding, when it starts getting tight a spring slips, sounds like 2-3 slips before it catches again. I suspect i need to tighten the spring where it goes around the arbor, does anyone else agree?

No. Sounds as if it's slipping at the outer end. Slipping on the arbor would not allow you get any spring tension at all, while slipping at the outer end requires some amount of winding to overcome the grip of the outward pressure on the barrel. Then, it will slip until the tension is no longer sufficient to allow slippage. You wind it more, it slips again. Etc.... Your outer is not catching on the anchor.

Thanks Jerry, that makes sense. Even though they are already greased, I guess I will just take both springs out, inspect them and re-install. Perhaps the end has broken on one of them. Was hoping to avoid taking them out cause I have spent enough time on this unit, the veneer needed lots of TLC

[Jonsheff]

Jerry was correct, outside end blown out on mainspring. I cut and drilled but it wont catch, keeps slipping. I think i need to temper so it will bend but dont have a torch and would prefer to replace. I am having trouble locating one, its 25mm (1 inch), not sure of length, perhaps 14-17 feet. Any suggestions on a source?

[Jonsheff]

Ordered this spring last night, not completely sure it will work but it looks like it will; 1.0" X .022" X 136" Sonora Chime Hole End Mainspring.
Also, for the first time had a spring get loose while installing it (the attempted repair spring), I lost my grip on the barrel and the spring "sprung out", didnt get me but was close to hitting me in the head. Have put in (and taken out) lots and lots of springs and this was my first slip up. It didn't stop me from starting over and installing again only to find out the hole I made on the end wont catch on the spring barrel. I could try to adjust and re-install but going to try a new spring to see if I have better luck.

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[JerryVan]

Jon,

It's never good practice to replace just one spring. It will ultimately be much stronger than the other one and put undue stress on it.