Late Victor Horn machines with Victrola Parts

[Zwebie]

I recall seeing a Huge Late Victor V @ Union a few years back. It had a 4 spring Victrola motor and crank, and had a backmount with a large slip in elbow opening, (no elbow or horn). Does anyone know if a Victor V this late would come with the smooth Schoolhouse horn???

Bob S.

[whoopinola]

There was a local "collector" here in southern Ontario who was constructing outside horn Victors from VV-IV's ,aftermarket parts , and salvaged period pieces....when he passed away , these frankenphones were scooped up by local dealers , and were sold to the unsuspecting public...he wasn't that good at his constructing , so a bit of knowledge would expose the scam.....a more skilled scammer could fool many more....I would be wary of Victors with Victrola components.....A fellow collector in Leamington Ont has a Victor-5 with the "School House" horn

[USlakeside]

The machine I picked up really looks all original and period, without any mucking about, and I've been buying machines for 12 years so I feel confident that these parts aged together from my observations. I found a late Victor I on Phonophan's website (the author Tim Fabrizio), pictured below. It has all the same features, late break, slip in elbow, unique screw on U-neck for the tone arm (not sure what to call that)

[USlakeside]

Heres another web find from intertique.com note the simple brake on the back side of the turn table and the slip in elbow.

[Ripduf1]

I have ser 51024 Victor III. Yours is legitimate. The late outside horn Victors (I am guessing) around 1920, were constructed with Victrola motors, Brakes, Stamped Turntables, aluminum data plates and often Ball bearing tone arms. It also makes the horn an issue because the decal position relative to the pin, is "upside down" since the elbow slot is ON TOP. They did have horns with the decal correctly positions for the elbow with slots on top. Those horns are hard to find. As mentioned I have a Vic III and also a mahogany Vic V the V uses a much bigger motor and has an auto-stop stem on the tone arm. The three does not have the stem.

I believe someone correctly pointed out that the cabinet was oftwen found under Victrolas, the fact that it has the molding to accept the III is cool. But it doesnt possess the cabinet design features of the III (fluted columns on each corner) that would make it a truely a "Cabinet that matches", small distiction but it is a "Cabinet that fits a III". John

[OrthoSean]

And the late V's also had the auto-stop brake, didn't they? I vaguely recall one at a show that did (a late V), although I know Victor sold retrofit kits, my gunmetal oak L-door came with such a kit and the owner never installed it, so there it sits in the drawer where it was!

Sean

[USlakeside]

Ripduf, thanks for those extra details. I noticed a few things about the horn. The construction is slightly lower grade than earlier horns I have seen. It feels lighter, and the petals connect to the collar in a way that is less refined. Its still a kind of rolled ring that is pressed around the small petal end, but its just not as 'high end' looking. Also, I noticed the "points" on the outside end of the horn, where they are joined dont scallop over as smoothy. They almost have a slight angle in them. The decal is at the 3 or 4pm position. I have attached some, sort of shabby, pictures. Bad light tonight, but I have the time to post.

[Ripduf1]

Hi USL, That horn is legit - also evidenced by the large head on the pin. I say your machine is all straight and the horn is absolutely correct.I definitely think Victor was angling to get out of the external horn business at the time our machines were manufactured. They were cutting costs (Aluminum tags! Uggh)in order to supply a few last die-hards for external horn machines in the day.

[USlakeside]

After Wayne, I discovered thanks to a tip from Ripduff that the machine I have has a label on the bottom with the date December 14, 1920. This is fairly late in the game no?

[De Soto Frank]

I saw a similar machine yesterday at Wayne... what first caught my eye from 25+ feet away was the aluminum tag on the front... then the Victor #2 on the fat taper-tube, and the early-style auto-stop...


Very nice-looking machine...