Swelled up Edison Blue Amberol cylinders

[Phonolair]

We've all had Blue Amberol cylinders that have swelled up, but has anyone thought about or studied what kind of conditions it takes to make them swell up. I started to wonder about this one day when I was reaming out a cylinder and went a little to far. So I thought no problem I'll get it wet and let it dry and ream it again. Well after soaking the cylinder a few minutes, than a few hours, and than a few days, and finally three weeks of soaking in water I gave up. The cylinder didn't swell at all, not a bit. So when you hear about not getting your Blue Amberol's wet when you clean them, I no longer worry about it. But I wonder just how damp would a storage area with cylinders have to be, and for how many years before they start to swell. Or could it be something else beside moisture. Or even different batches of plaster used in the Blue Amberols reacting differently to the surrounding conditions. Does any one know if there has been any studies on this.
Best Regards, Larry

[WDC]

Larry, I don't think soaking the Blue Amberols in water is a good idea. Also storing them under humid conditions is nothing I'd ever recommend, not even on purpose. Of course, there are some reasons for that. First, wet plaster cores can also collect mold which can be quite nasty and later, when storing them in your living room, cannot be healthy at all to you.
A more general problem with the idea of soaking is that you actually do not want the plaster to collect further moisture as it may also expand to the outer side which then causes exceeded pressure to the celluloid. This is the fundamental problem of all Blue Amberols because the celluloid still shrinks. This might be an additional reason for the shrunk plaster usually found with these cylinders. However, when the pressure against the celluloid becomes too much it will split on the sides or may split at once through the whole recording surface, resulting in a total destruction of the record. Therefore I doubt that a general wax cylinder has a shorter lifetime than a Blue Amberol.
When you have reamed a cylinder too much, just leave it that way and simply put a piece of paper between the record and the mandrel and it will play just fine.

Best, Norman

[Amberola 1-A]

Larry,

When you say you "went too far," do you mean that the cylinder now goes down past where the carriage and reproducer can start at the beginning of the recording, or that the starting end of the cylinder is now too large and doesn't fit snugly and has too much side play? If you are using a reamer, how many strips of abrasive material do you have on the sides? If using a reamer, you should really have only one thin strip of sandpaper attached to the side of the reamer. More than one strip can get you into trouble quickly as it removes more than necessary, even with one turn. The swelling is generally uneven and the one strip can remove the high spots that are causing the cylinder not to fit properly on the mandrel. When reaming, I have a loose mandrel handy so I don't have to keep running to a machine to test the fit.
I also have made a mark on my reamer where a cylinder will fit on the mandrel with little or no extra adjustment.

Bill

[Phonolair]

Larry, I don't think soaking the Blue Amberols in water is a good idea.

Yes I agree, I normaly don't soak cylinders but I thought it would be a easy fix when I reamed the cylinder to far. Needless to say all the stories I've heard about your cylinders swelling up if you get them wet I don't worry about anymore. Most of the time I wait until I have a few dozen cylinders to ream and then do them at the same time.

I also have made a mark on my reamer where a cylinder will fit on the mandrel with little or no extra adjustment.

Yes I also have a mark on my reamer but I was watching TV and got carried away on that one. (TV in my work shop) Anyway thats what got me started on the whole bad idea that didn't work.
One thing I found that does work is I no longer use sand paper on my reamer anymore because it loads up to fast. But you can get sheets of abrasive made to sand plaster walls and joints. Its comes in diferent sizes so you can cut it to fit your reamer. I can ream a couple dozen cylinder with little build up and the stuff doesn't wear out. Just clean it off with a old tooth brush when it finaly starts to load up and your ready to go again. I don't remember the name but its at home improvement stores with the paints and plaster products.
Best regards, Larry

[WDC]

Needless to say all the stories I've heard about your cylinders swelling up if you get them wet I don't worry about anymore.

Well, I think the swelling process is something that occurs over years or even decades. I cannot remember that I was ever required to ream a Blue Amberol twice.

What you could also probably do is to smear new plaster into the record. I sometimes do a repair of plaster if the cylinder seems to be worth it. If you apply a very thin layer of new plaster over the old it will add up. Then you will be able to ream it again to get the desired inner shape.
Before reaming it you will have to wait at least 48 hours for the new plaster to dry properly. A week of drying is actually safer.

Best, Norman

[Shane]

"One thing I found that does work is I no longer use sand paper on my reamer anymore because it loads up to fast. But you can get sheets of abrasive made to sand plaster walls and joints. Its comes in diferent sizes so you can cut it to fit your reamer. I can ream a couple dozen cylinder with little build up and the stuff doesn't wear out. Just clean it off with a old tooth brush when it finaly starts to load up and your ready to go again. I don't remember the name but its at home improvement stores with the paints and plaster products."

Larry,
I think what you are talking about is called sand screen. It looks like window screen, but has an abrasive surface... many use this stuff for cleaning porcelain sinks and toilets.

I've found that sandpaper doesn't load up too much if you use the coarse grit kind. I prefer coarse sandpaper anyways because it really knocks the plaster down quickly... not much effort needed.

[Phonolair]

Larry,
I think what you are talking about is called sand screen. It looks like window screen, but has an abrasive surface

Yes Shane that's the stuff. I seen the dry wallers using it one day and noticed it didn't load up. So I got some and tried it,
It works great.
Best regards, Larry