Help with identifying a model.

Stocky1 · Post by **Stocky1** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:11 am

Gentlemen , We are a furniture refinishing shop in North West NJ . We just picked this piece up from a customer . We are going to refinish it . My only real concern is , can I get reproduction decals to replace the " graduola " and " Aeolian - Vocalion " ? and if so can anyone direct me to a site .

Second , what exactly do I have here ?

There's spectacular Mahogany veneers under the old finish .

Lastly , is there any value to this piece .

I'm going to attempt to upload some pictures .

thanks in advance ,
Mike

ChuckA · Post by **ChuckA** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:19 am

Try Greg Cline

He doesn't show the Aeolian in his catalog, but he can do custom decals

Gregory W. Cline
Findlay, Ohio USA
Phone: 419-424-1201

e-mail:
[email protected]
[email protected]

Chuck

phonogfp · Post by **phonogfp** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:02 pm

For what it's worth, the value of that Aeolian-Vocalion would be better preserved if the original finish were restored rather than stripped and refinished. Collectors of antique phonographs prefer original finishes, and on a scarce model such as this one, having the original finish in presentable condition - even if less than perfect - is far preferable to a new finish. (The interior should definitely be left alone - it looks fine.)

Once the original finish is gone, it can never be replaced. Sometimes, there's simply no choice, but the finish on this one looks restorable.

George P.

Stocky1 · Post by **Stocky1** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:07 pm

Chuck and George thanks for the quick response .

I will give Greg a call on Monday .

George , she's not interested in selling it . I completely understand where you're coming from . Of course on our end she wants to be able to see the wood and the grain of the wood . You can't do that in it's current condition .

You referred to it as a scarce model ....... Any idea of a value ? I couldn't find any info on it ... of course I was probably incorrectly searching .

What is this piece called ?

brianu · Post by **brianu** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:29 pm

If your client has no interest in selling it, then why concern yourself with the machine's value?
But if you are concerned with it's value nevertheless, then you should know first and foremost that, if you refinish this rather than preserve the original finish (even in a way as basic as a French polish), then you will easily decrease the value by at least half. You should probably consider advising your client about that. And I'm sure you can still make money off of this job if you do something to preserve and enhance the original finish instead of completely redoing it. It's tragic when people do such drastic unnecessary over restoration like you're proposing.

Stocky1 · Post by **Stocky1** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:52 pm

brianu , I'm asking about it's potential value in order to advise my client.That's all , nothing more , nothing less . Maybe she has no idea what she has . This job will not keep me in business nor will it put me out of business . If I was told it had a value of X and my client said she'd rather not do anything other then have us repair it , then I do as my customer asks . We haven't been in business for 40 plus years by lying and deceiving the public .
I don't appreciate your tone assuming that I'm only in it for the refinishing job. It's your opinion that refinishing it would be drastic and unnecessary . 99.9 percent of the time a piece looses no value being refinished because it really had no value to begin with . Unless someone on here tells me this is a museum quality piece then it's at the discretion of my customer as to how they would like to handle it . Can we attach some lineage to this piece , it's handmade builder , 1 or just a few ? Then come talk to me .

So , if your not willing to offer some help as to it's value then maybe you can keep your opinion to yourself .

Tinkerbell · Post by **Tinkerbell** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:16 pm

Stocky1 wrote:brianu , I'm asking about it's potential value in order to advise my client.That's all , nothing more , nothing less . Maybe she has no idea what she has . This job will not keep me in business nor will it put me out of business . If I was told it had a value of X and my client said she'd rather not do anything other then have us repair it , then I do as my customer asks . We haven't been in business for 40 plus years by lying and deceiving the public .
I don't appreciate your tone assuming that I'm only in it for the refinishing job. It's your opinion that refinishing it would be drastic and unnecessary . 99.9 percent of the time a piece looses no value being refinished because it really had no value to begin with . Unless someone on here tells me this is a museum quality piece then it's at the discretion of my customer as to how they would like to handle it . Can we attach some lineage to this piece , it's handmade builder , 1 or just a few ? Then come talk to me .

So , if your not willing to offer some help as to it's value then maybe you can keep your opinion to yourself .

Stocky1 ~ I would please ask that you take what I am about to say in the spirit in which it is intended... nothing more, nothing less.

You came to this forum seeking advice from those with a lot of expertise in this particular genre of collecting, and as such, members have provided you with reliable information that may be difficult to obtain elsewhere.

Like members of any family, we often have our own disagreements, differences of opinions, personalities, and ideas of an item's worth, but the one point that most will agree upon is that unless the original finish is beyond any hope of restoration, in the area of antique phonographs -- especially those deemed more rare to obtain -- it is far better to either conserve or restore the existing finish rather than to refinish it.

You may recall the old chestnut about drawing more flies with honey than with vinegar, and that holds true for this website as well. If you are interested in benefiting from the wealth of information from the members of a website where true knowledge is a dying art, you may want to think about the way you are coming across in your request for information.

To do otherwise will likely result in your future requests for assistance being overlooked or simply ignored.

Post by **gramophone78** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:44 pm

The plain truth is.....this is not an appraisal site. Feel free to use the many that are on line. For a small fee, you should get answers.

brianu · Post by **brianu** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:10 pm

Stocky1 wrote:brianu , I'm asking about it's potential value in order to advise my client.That's all , nothing more , nothing less . Maybe she has no idea what she has . This job will not keep me in business nor will it put me out of business . If I was told it had a value of X and my client said she'd rather not do anything other then have us repair it , then I do as my customer asks . We haven't been in business for 40 plus years by lying and deceiving the public .
I don't appreciate your tone assuming that I'm only in it for the refinishing job. It's your opinion that refinishing it would be drastic and unnecessary . 99.9 percent of the time a piece looses no value being refinished because it really had no value to begin with . Unless someone on here tells me this is a museum quality piece then it's at the discretion of my customer as to how they would like to handle it . Can we attach some lineage to this piece , it's handmade builder , 1 or just a few ? Then come talk to me .

So , if your not willing to offer some help as to it's value then maybe you can keep your opinion to yourself .

You asked for opinions about the value of a machine that you mentioned you'd be refinishing. My opinion, like that of most every antique phonograph collector you're likely to encounter (including one responder above who happens to be an internationally known expert, and author and co-author of numerous books on the subject), is that refinishing a machine typically diminishes its value, often greatly. Antique phonographs are not like typical pieces of furniture. The market is far more limited and those involved in it most uniformly prefer as much originality as possible - when it comes to finishes, a less than perfect one will still usually leave a machine with more value in this market than it would have even if flawlessly refinished with total historical accuracy, which tends not to be the case 99.99 percent of the time.

And by the way, you're certainly one to talk about one's tone. The only person here who referred to lying and deceiving was you. This really isn't the place to come trolling for petty verbal spats. I meant no offense by suggesting that you should share this newly acquired knowledge with your customer so that her decision here can be fully informed. As George pointed out above, once a machine has been refinished, what's been done cannot be undone.

Stocky1 · Post by **Stocky1** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:22 pm

WOW , what a surprise, an internet forum with a bunch of selfish know it alls.

I get anywhere from 1-5 or more emails a day from strangers who have seen my response on antique forums. They ask for approx values , what do I have , how can I fix etc ...
I answer every single one of them as if them were my best friend and long time customer . I have nothing to loose being a nice person .

Karma will serve you guys up a nice slice of pie one day .

ChuckA , I appreciate your suggestions to try Greg.

Help with identifying a model.

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