The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:15 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for ICS
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:51 pm 
Offline
Victor VI
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 3165
Model: Edison Standard, Model C, with modifications for the International Correspondence School
Serial # 717698C
Year(s) Made: 1908-09, possibly later
Original Cost: $25
Case/Cabinet Size: 11 ¾ x 13 x 9 ½ inches
Turntable/Mandrel: Standard mandrel
Reproducer/Sound-Box: Edison Model C
Motor: Single spring
Horn Dimensions: 14" witch's hat standard
Reproduction Parts: none
Current Value:

Interesting Facts: True Model C phonographs are fairly hard to find. They were initially introduced in 1908 as 2 minute machines, specifically to address concerns regarding a patent on the swinging end gate, which has been removed starting with Model C. 4 minute records came out in 1908, which made these machines instantly obsolete. Model C machines were initially only sold in New York state because of patent issues (see Frow, Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion, Appendix V). They seem to be much more common with the language school modifications (see below) than without.

Favorite Characteristics: This machine was sold through the International Correspondence School (ICS) for the purpose of learning languages via cylinder records. The speed control, which was moved below the bedplate starting with the Model B series, has been moved back above the bedplate to accommodate the 90 rpm speed of language cylinders (as opposed to the 160 rpm speed of entertainment cylinders). Additionally, a repeater has been added in front of the carriage rail. When the repeater button is pressed and released, the reproducer moves back a few grooves so that students can listen to phrases repeatedly without having to lift and move the reproducer carriage over and over. Like all ICS machines, this machine also has a small celluloid plaque at the bottom front indicating that the machine was made specifically for ICS.

This machine has been upgraded with the 2-and-4-minute adaptor kit but is missing the gear cover. It also has nearly 100% of its original pinstriping.


Attachments:
IM001096.JPG
IM001096.JPG [ 76.89 KiB | Viewed 3285 times ]
IM001095.JPG
IM001095.JPG [ 81 KiB | Viewed 3285 times ]
IM001094.JPG
IM001094.JPG [ 73.97 KiB | Viewed 3285 times ]
IM001093.JPG
IM001093.JPG [ 63.09 KiB | Viewed 3285 times ]


Last edited by 52089 on Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:07 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 887
Hi 52089.

Thanks for posting this. It's nice to see an ICS machine here. I find them to be some of the most interesting Standards. It's neat to see your machine with its owner upgrades intact.

While I agree that they were introduced in 1908 and were produced in relatively small numbers (especially the non ICS machines), I think it would be a mistake to say that they were only produced in 1908. The earliest serial number I've seen for one is 621061, but the last number I've seen is 818497. (The last standard number I've seen is 820852). If Standard production ended late 1913 or early 1914 then I'd imagine that the Cs were produced well past 1909 in any case. Production seems to have been done in batches rather than in just one go.

Thanks again for sharing. It's a very cool machine.

Regards,
Martin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:42 pm 
Offline
Victor VI
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 3165
Martin,

Thanks for the comment and the interesting observation. Odd that Edison would bother continuing to make Model C machines while still making the D and later machines. I wonder if it might be more of a case of having made too many and then selling them, probably at slightly reduced price, until they were gone? I looked and Frow (p. 125) does mention 1909 production for these, albeit at half the quantity of the Ds.

Cheers,
Kevin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:17 pm 
Offline
Victor Monarch Special
User avatar
"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will." - A. Lincoln
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 6623
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
52089 wrote:
Martin,

Thanks for the comment and the interesting observation. Odd that Edison would bother continuing to make Model C machines while still making the D and later machines. I wonder if it might be more of a case of having made too many and then selling them, probably at slightly reduced price, until they were gone? I looked and Frow (p. 125) does mention 1909 production for these, albeit at half the quantity of the Ds.

Cheers,
Kevin


The Model Bs remained in production after the introduction of the Model D machines too, although in small quantities. There's a photo on page 152 of The Talking Machine Compendium showing a Model B Home with blue and gilt decoration (decals) as seen on the Model D machines.

George P.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:05 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 887
52089 wrote:
I wonder if it might be more of a case of having made too many and then selling them, probably at slightly reduced price, until they were gone?


I think overproduction was certainly an issue with Standards, especially in the last 3 years or so. Going by serial numbers, production seems to be in blocks of numbers.

Once all of the Model B castings were used up, the Edison works had a very versatile platform in the Model C bedplate. Depending on top gearing and feedscrew type, the company could put out a Model C, D, E or F on demand. The Model C would have been in continuing demand for the ICS courses as they were all based on the 2 minute records and needed recording ability. The Edison 4 minute recorder wasn't brought out until 1912 (I think). There is also evidence that a given machine might start out as one type and then be re-configured at the factory (perhaps as much as two times), to fill a particular order.

It wasn't until the very, very end of the Standards that ICS used a Model D instead of the C. I would assume that the model C parts ran out before ICS's demand for Standards. I think it may be another example of the Edison company finding ways to use up reserves of stock as well as to creatively market their machines. Again, thanks for sharing yours with us. :)

Regards,
Martin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:48 pm 
Offline
Victor VI
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 3165
martinola wrote:
The Model C would have been in continuing demand for the ICS courses as they were all based on the 2 minute records and needed recording ability.


ICS did eventually issue 4 minute language cylinders. I have a set of Spanish cylinders on beveled-edge Blue Amberols and I know there are other languages too. There is also an Amberola 30 that was made for ICS that requires a special Model H reproducer with a cut-down tail and an adapter ring and elbow. I'm pretty sure at least one of our board members has one of these.

Glad you enjoyed seeing the machine.

Kevin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:47 am 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:46 pm
Posts: 1217
Location: riverside calif
Very nice and well presented feature. A lot of people need the information on these unique phonographs . I have one of the last ICS C phonographs and it is in the last batch of standards made. It is s/n 820130. I rescued it from being parted out. My earliest ICS ( ITC) is a early banner a standard s/n 46882. Edison has been making language course phonographs for a long time. I also have a D standard ICS that has a much earlier serial number than the C machine. Edison did not waste anything. I think that the ICS language or course phonographs were good money makers for Edison as they were made till the last standard Edison as course phonographs and were incorporated into the amberola machines. They seem to be a excellent way for people to mail order an education. To make more ICS standard C phonographs than regular standard C phonographs for music shows they were money makers for Edison. The C phonograph non ICS machines were primarily made for New York due to a copyright lawsuit till the standard D Came out. Tom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:22 am 
Offline
Victor VI
User avatar
I'm Feeling Cranky
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 3621
Location: Hemlock, NY
Kevin,

Thank you for providing us with a visual example of one of these relatively misunderstood machines.

Your description, explanation, and the subsequent additional responses provide us with an historically important and lasting reference material.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:07 am 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:28 pm
Posts: 229
Location: Deltona FL / Brampton ON
Add one of these to add to the display your nice phonograph.


Attachments:
ics1.jpg
ics1.jpg [ 47.94 KiB | Viewed 806 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph no. 98 - Edison Model C Standard for
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:45 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:51 am
Posts: 276
ICS phonographs are neat. I especially like the attachments for the Amberola 30 and currently have 2 complete ones. It has been requested if a member has one of these to post some photos, so here they are. The attachment consists of a carriage, a pot metal reducing ring, a Model H reproducer with a cutout to allow the passage of sound to the horn, and a metal swivel connector. These attachments are great because you can use your Amberola 30 to play wax Amberols, as well as record with a 4-minute recorder. These attachments really dress up an ordinary Amberola. This exact attachment is for sale in the Yankee Trader section.


Attachments:
IMG_20200127_201556981.jpg
IMG_20200127_201556981.jpg [ 610.67 KiB | Viewed 746 times ]
IMG_20200127_201612261.jpg
IMG_20200127_201612261.jpg [ 445.5 KiB | Viewed 746 times ]
IMG_20200127_201623055.jpg
IMG_20200127_201623055.jpg [ 1.45 MiB | Viewed 746 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Herderz and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Content © 2009-2020 by The Talking Machine Forum and the respective posters.
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.