Inventory of Beethoven and Schubert Edisonic phonographs

[fran604g]

Sorry, I didn't understand how your photo attachment process worked. Let's try again!

Two more photos, then I'll quit.

Wonderful! Thank you for sharing your photos with us. As for both of your reproducers, all you need do is examine the diamond stylus under magnification, and make sure they aren't chipped. These are nearly 100 year old original condition reproducers, and as people continue to have them rebuilt (whether necessarily or unnecessarily) they continue to become increasingly scarce! Not all of them need to be modified/rebuilt. However, if there are significant issues, Wyatt Markus (forum member "MicaMonster") is the foremost expert rebuilder of the Diamond Disc Reproducers, and he will honestly assess the condition of yours.

At any rate, as has been pointed out by others, the Long Playing gearing/mechanism is not common on any Edisonic, it was an available accessory (as a kit from the factory), and it seems very few owners elected to purchase and install it on their Edisonic.

Whether or not any Edisonics (Beethoven/Schubert) were equipped at the factory with the Long Playing feature installed, is up for debate. And many contemporary owners have elected to use the LP mechanism taken from other less valuable models to outfit their "standard" machine. The LP system and records was very short lived, for about a year, and disappeared in 1927 as quickly as it appeared.

Thank you again,
Fran

EDIT:

To illustrate such a Long Playing accessory "kit" that was offered by the Edison Co., here's a link viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23813 to an iconic thread, featuring one in its original packaging. The spare reproducer holder on your Beethoven is identical to the one in this kit, suggesting that it may have been installed by a dealer or the original owner to upgrade his "New Edison" Edisonic Phonograph. Of course we may never know.

Cheers,
Fran

[drh]

Another thing that I noticed was that the front door pulls on the unit are a clamshell design made of metal and look to be original. I thought that I read somewhere in the forum that those pulls were wooden and susceptible to damage?...

The Beethoven had metal pulls. The wooden pulls were on its smaller, more Spartan companion model, the Schubert; those are indeed prone to damage. The Beethoven ones, on the other hand, seem to be prone to not being there at all and are hard to replace, meaning you should be happy yours still has its pulls!

If you skim back through this thread, you'll see lots of photos of Schuberts (including some of mine) and other Beethovens that will show you both styles of pull.

[marcapra]

"Whether or not any Edisonics (Beethoven/Schubert) were equipped at the factory with the Long Playing feature installed, is up for debate. And many contemporary owners have elected to use the LP mechanism taken from other less valuable models to outfit their "standard" machine. The LP system and records was very short lived, for about a year, and disappeared in 1927 as quickly as it appeared."

That's a very interesting question, Fran! My Edisonic Beethoven as I've said before is unsold stock and it has the LP mechanism. It also has a speed control on top of the motor board. I'm sure I have the only Edisonic with a speed control on top. I wonder if that long ago dealer did that also? It also came with an NOS Long Play rep. still in the box, but no motor board rep. holder, just the usual wooden cradle. It also came with some NOS Long Play records. I tend to think that the Phoenix, AZ dealer had an LP kit, and installed it just because he had some unsold LP records he wanted to sell. Makes sense. I personally tend to think that the LP mechanisms were not ever put on at the factory, but it's just a guess. After all, the LP experiment was a failure, and the Edisonic didn't come out until 1927. Fran, can you say how many Beethovens and Schuberts have LP mechanisms, now, that were not installed in modern times? Or just how many have them now?

[fran604g]

"Whether or not any Edisonics (Beethoven/Schubert) were equipped at the factory with the Long Playing feature installed, is up for debate. And many contemporary owners have elected to use the LP mechanism taken from other less valuable models to outfit their "standard" machine. The LP system and records was very short lived, for about a year, and disappeared in 1927 as quickly as it appeared."

That's a very interesting question, Fran! My Edisonic Beethoven as I've said before is unsold stock and it has the LP mechanism. It also has a speed control on top of the motor board. I'm sure I have the only Edisonic with a speed control on top. I wonder if that long ago dealer did that also? It also came with an NOS Long Play rep. still in the box, but no motor board rep. holder, just the usual wooden cradle. It also came with some NOS Long Play records. I tend to think that the Phoenix, AZ dealer had an LP kit, and installed it just because he had some unsold LP records he wanted to sell. Makes sense. I personally tend to think that the LP mechanisms were not ever put on at the factory, but it's just a guess. After all, the LP experiment was a failure, and the Edisonic didn't come out until 1927. Fran, can you say how many Beethovens and Schuberts have LP mechanisms, now, that were not installed in modern times? Or just how many have them now?

Hi Marc,

I have 5 Beethovens (of 25) and 4 Schuberts (of 70) recorded with L-P gearing installed.

I don't have any proof that any Edisonics left the factory with L-P capabilities, but let me explain my thoughts:

The dataplate for the Beethoven is designated as "BN", which is a pretty understandable abbreviation, but the Schubert is not a straightforward abbreviation at all. It's "CLT", which in my opinion was an abbreviation for "Consolette", as I've opined in the past. We know that George Frow stated the Consolette was a Long Playing machine that went into very limited production, but apparently none (that we have identified) has survived. I know it's pure conjecture on my part, but I can't help to think that what we know as the Schubert was initially produced with L-P gearing as the Consolette, which means it would've had the L-P function installed at the factory. This possibility, coupled with our knowledge that "Edison" never let anything go to waste, has me questioning why - with the transition from Long Playing Consoles into the Edisonics - would such an out of character change happen, which didn't use up at least some old L-P parts?

It doesn't make sense to me that that would happen. But I probably wouldn't make much sense to the Old Man, either.

I hope someday the mystery will be solved conclusively, and that I live long enough to read of the discovery either way round.

Cheers,
Fran

[pughphonos]

A "DECORATED" SCHUBERT

Model: Schubert Edisonic
Serial number: 5478

This and the next three posts from me are entirely owed to Fran's thoughtfulness and generosity as he recorded E-bay Edisonic offerings during the period when I was AWOL (sure, for his own purposes, but still a good thing!). As you know, when those E-bay ads listings are gone they are GONE.

Here's what his spread sheet has to say about this beaut (data entered on Dec. 2, 2019, so the listing predated that).

"antique-depot eBAY Listed at $445.00 starting bid. Partially striped cab. with stylized floral decals, wrong crank, operating lever seems odd."

[pughphonos]

A HANDSOME BEETHOVEN

Model: Beethoven Edisonic
Serial number: 1715

Another Edisonic on E-bay captured on Fran's data sheets, with comments entered on May 1, 2019 (photos copied by him to a private file, but all five are reproduced here):

"mraardvark eBay. Sold for $995 shipping price N/A, includes 101 records. Reproducer is not parallel to the turntable surface, indicating the receiving end of the horn ferrule is broken at the horn throat. Cabinet finish has been treated with something - very shiny. Door pulls look original. Lids have been sanded. Original grille cloth (identical to my 1-C's cloth) completely intact and in exc. condition!"

[pughphonos]

A COMPLETE BUT SOMEWHAT ROUGH BEETHOVEN

Model: Beethoven Edisonic
Serial number: 2385

Another Edisonic on E-bay captured on Fran's data sheets, with comments entered on October 11, 2019 (photos copied by him to a private file, but all four are reproduced here):

"onads - eBay, $1150 BIN. Complete with cabinet in fair condition and blemishes to top and slight damage. Finish rough overall. Feet missing part of their turning."

[pughphonos]

A BEETHOVEN LOCATED FOR MANY YEARS IN A MUSIC STORE IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA (DATING BACK TO THE EDISON ERA)--ALONG WITH EDISON RECORD CABINET AND LITERATURE!

Model: Beethoven Edisonic
Serial number: 1200

This one is a gem, courtesy of Fran who keeps an eye on Facebook phonograph groups. This is what Fran sent me yesterday, which immediately moves on to a message left on that forum in 2015:

Fran: "This is the text of his (Robles) astonishing initial post to the Facebook group Antique Phonograph Enthusiasts":

John D Robles
March 2, 2015

So I went on my treasure hunt this morning, really nice people, and what they had was a New Edisonic Beethoven model! But it had no crank and no regular reproducer, but it had the long play reproducer. Very nice machine, as you can see. Also, they had an Edison DIAMOND DISC record cabinet! These came from her Grandfather's store, Newland Music in Phoenix, AZ. Also she had a lot of paper which was not for sale, sadly. They were pics of the Diamond Disc Tone Test artists, with programs etc from the various Tone Tests that were done in Phoenix for his store! THere was an Oro Tone 78 rpm attachment, in very nice shape with original box, and there must have been 3-400 Diamond Discs, some in envelopes and most without, as they had been in the cabinet. I'm negotiating on those. Lots of 51000 and 52000, and 6 long play discs. They'd like to sell as a lot, which and the price is not bad even if I'd have to buy a new reproducer and crank. Pics of the sale stuff below. Oh by the way..I did bring home three discs with no labels and smooth reverse side...one is an Edison Diamond Disc advertising record that was played in the store and the other two are tuning records! I'll post video shortly.

[Mvogel6161]

Recently acquired Beethoven.

[marcapra]

Thanks Ms. Pugh! Now I can see that my Beethoven ser. no. 1200 did come with a rep. holder and I have it. I just had to buy it separately from John.