Inventory of Beethoven and Schubert Edisonic phonographs

[pughphonos]

Marc, you got it. Electric pick-up significantly helps lateral cut acousticals but not Edison Diamond Discs anywhere near as much. I'm not among those on this forum who think that Edison could do no wrong and his phonographs admit of no critique. That said, he did have smart and dedicated staff and drove them hard--and they clearly fussed non-stop with the acousatical recording aparatus to produce the best acoustical reproduction possible.

[phonosandradios]

I can't believe this thread has had almost 36,000 views!

[drh]

A Schubert from California has shown up on eBay; unfortunately, the photos do not include one of the data plate. I spotted it belatedly; at this point it has only 18 hours to go. It's drawn no bids, probably because the opening bid level is $1200...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Edison-Schuber ... SwwnlfJyY4

[Rustuki]

I have owned a Beethoven Edisonic unit for the past 50 years. It was purchased at the estate sale of the original owner, who I knew, and I have been trying to find some information on it. I stumbled onto your site this week.

As I recall, I have the player, two large "needles", a full complement of records (some in sleeves), several booklets listing the available records, an Oregon based newspaper from 1927 advertising the phonograph, and (I think) the sales receipt for about $225.

I say "as I recall" because, although it's stored in the livingroom of one of my homes, I haven't opened the lids in over 20 years which was the last time I tried to research it and was told there was no such thing as a stand alone Edisonic built at that time.

I'm wondering if this is something that should be insured heavily as a collector's item or if it is just a large curiosity? Since there doesn't seem to be much information about them, I'm hoping that you can help a newby with an unknown item.

Thank you for any help or information you can offer. Also, if this is not the correct location for this posting, please guide me to a better venue if you can.

[marcapra]

Well, first of all a Beethoven is a pretty rare Edison machine and was made from 1927 to 1929. When you say you have two large needles, I think you mean two large reproducers with a diamond stylus. Many people ask why is this Edisonic called a Beethoven. I believe it had something to do with marketing because there was a lot of commotion that year in 1927 because the composer Beethoven had died 100 years before. Columbia even put out all nine of Beethoven's symphonies that year in complete albums. In contrast, you would have to look very hard to find much Beethoven on Edison DDs. The Edison record division had just started to record electrically when the Edisonic machines came out. And they had just started to record major classical works of chamber music complete on two to four DDs, and later on needle cut records. George Frow, a British Edison phonograph enthusiast, wrote an excellent book on Edison Diamond disc phonographs that is still in print in paperback and is probably available in hardback on Ebay. You can find information there about your Beethoven and also on forums like this and the Antique Phonograph Society website and Facebook page. As for what should you insure your Beethoven for, there is a Schubert for sale on Ebay right now for $1200 in very good condition. In today's market, that is a high price for a Schubert, which is the same as a Beethoven as far as the mechanism, but the cabinet is smaller. I have seen Schuberts sell in the $600 to $800 range if it is in excellent operating condition and the reproducer has been rebuilt with a new stylus, or the stylus is in excellent condition. The Beethoven is worth more due to its rarity and ability to store more records. I have seen Beethovens sell for from $1200 to about $2000 depending on condition over the years. But times have changed with the phonograph hobby in recent years with prices dropping on large floor models from about 25% to 40%.

[Rustuki]

Thank you for your reply. I will look into the book by Frow and see what I can find. I should be back at my other residence in a couple of weeks and I will see if I can post a photo of the identification plate since it appears this group originally had to do with identifying the units that are still out there.

It's kind of fun to finally find someone who knows what I'm talking about instead of being told I'm crazy! When I last researched this I even gave the info, and photocopies of the newspaper advertisement, to an antique dealer and even he couldn't find anything on it!

As I mentioned, all I really know about vintage phonographs is that I have one which appears to be in good condition.

[drh]

One slight amendment to the foregoing: the Beethoven mechanism did differ from that of the Schubert in one respect: the Schubert had a single spring, the Beethoven two. Two is better.

I'll note in passing, since you're new at this, do not play Edison diamond discs (the ¼" thick ones) with steel needles. They should be played only with an Edison reproducer fitted with diamond stylus. Since you say you have two, I'm guessing one may be an adapter for lateral records (Edison machines were designed to play only the Edison records and need add-ons for anything else.) The top photo below shows an adapter for lateral records (regular 78s) played with steel needles. If you have something that looks like that, do *not* play diamond discs with it. The bottom photo shows the Edison reproducer that is appropriate for Edison diamond discs.

[gramophone-georg]

Thank you for your reply. I will look into the book by Frow and see what I can find. I should be back at my other residence in a couple of weeks and I will see if I can post a photo of the identification plate since it appears this group originally had to do with identifying the units that are still out there.

It's kind of fun to finally find someone who knows what I'm talking about instead of being told I'm crazy! When I last researched this I even gave the info, and photocopies of the newspaper advertisement, to an antique dealer and even he couldn't find anything on it!

As I mentioned, all I really know about vintage phonographs is that I have one which appears to be in good condition.

Antique dealers mostly seem to regard phonographs and records as having no value and therefore not worth the time. One can see they are uninformed by how they describe and price their machines.

[marcapra]

delete this.

[marcapra]

It sounds like you have a nice Beethoven. If you could post some pics of it inside and out, and some of the records, and the docs, we could help you even more. Also you should be cautious about playing any records without checking out the stylus to see that the diamond is good. You should see a sharp conical point on the stylus if you have very good close up vision, or use a good magnifying glass. Then you should play the stylus on the run out area after the groove to see if the diamond makes a scratch on the record. If it does, do not play any records and contact Wyatt Markus to inquire about rebuilding, if you want to get your Beethoven is working condition. Also be sure to lubricate the mechanism. I'm curious, since you never or rarely played this machine, why, or how, did you acquire it? Another thing: An antique dealer is the last person I would consult to learn more about this machine. Most have little or no knowledge of them.