Orthoponic and orthophonic styles machines

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VanEpsFan1914
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Re: Orthoponic and orthophonic styles machines

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

gunnarthefeisty wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:18 pm
James wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:43 am
larryh wrote:At one time I had the Credenza as well as the 810. Both were good but like many others here I thought it had a slight edge on the Credenza in sound quality.

Fast forward to today. I have been playing many records on the Edison William and Mary Console some of which I made videos of. I do have quite a nice collection of vertical records of Victor, Columbia, Brunswick ect. In order to hear them in my small home I have been playing three different types of portable machines. One a Orthohonic Victor, due to a lousy rebuild I converted it to a #2 reproducer. The second a Panatrope and the Third a Telefunken. I hadn't originally brought the Telefunken in to the mix because it has a touchy motor and won't always play though a record. (Although the Brunswick also has to be cranked to the max to make it though many selections). In playing a good trio record of Piano, Violin an Cello I noted quite quickly how much more tone was coming from the tiny Telefunken cabinet. The reproducer is large, similar to the #4 Victor in size. Everything else about it is minimal, weight is a fourth the others, the horn is comparably tiny and yet the sound is very satisfying. It way outplays the #2 reproducer I just had rebuilt and it avoids a slightly tinny effect the Panatrope reproducer has in some places. Its also the loudest machine of that type. I have to use a soft tone needle or it will drive you out of the room. Not sure how they create the fullness of tone but in some ways I think Mica is a more suitable diaphragm for vertical play records. The Brunswick is no slouch and I was actually surprised when I compared records between it and the Telefunken that the latter has this warm solid tone which gave it an edge overall.

The 810 is long gone as well as the Credenza.. I parted with the Credenza when I had both it and a S19 in the living room and realized that the Edison was much more lifelike than the Victor and decided to move it out. Surprisingly in many ways a decent portable can provide a larger sound in the room than a standard type victrola using a standard horn. I think its the way it has a rather unimpeded ability to project the sound in a wider pattern.

Larry
I also play electrically recorded records on my Edison William and Mary highboy, using Brunswick Panatrope reproducer and, it sound tremendous due perhaps with the steel large 250 horn. You hear the amazing bass. Turning the reproducer to play European classical Pathé, you can hear some amazing sound never heard playing with the Pathé reproducer and, clearer sound.


Jim
I know this is an ancient thread, but what kind of tonearm do you use for the panatrope reproducer?
Panatropes come with their own tonearm. It's not an aftermarket reproducer but part of a carefully done system.

The Panatrope reproducer. This one was carefully reconstructed from parts. Notice ball bearing fulcrum, pleated diaphragm made of very thin aluminum, and the near-complete lack of rubber. All gaskets are paper. A Panatrope does not have gasket problems, and if adjusted it will play well. This one is a mix of mechanical parts from two pot-metal reproducers, fitted into a brass body. With appropriate care it should last about a century before it's due for another few adjustments.
DSC01442.JPG
DSC01442.JPG (140.58 KiB) Viewed 549 times

The tone arm will rest with the needle down without dragging the needle on the deck and scratching the finish. Underneath the turntable is an autobrake system similar to the one on earlier Brunswicks fitted with the Ultona. The pivot is ball-bearing supported and requires little service. I've never seen a Panatrope with a damaged tonearm support, though the pot-metal reproducer bodies may swell.

IMG_20210111_180040.jpg

gunnarthefeisty
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Re: Orthoponic and orthophonic styles machines

Post by gunnarthefeisty »

VanEpsFan1914 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:11 pm
gunnarthefeisty wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:18 pm
James wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:43 am

I also play electrically recorded records on my Edison William and Mary highboy, using Brunswick Panatrope reproducer and, it sound tremendous due perhaps with the steel large 250 horn. You hear the amazing bass. Turning the reproducer to play European classical Pathé, you can hear some amazing sound never heard playing with the Pathé reproducer and, clearer sound.


Jim
I know this is an ancient thread, but what kind of tonearm do you use for the panatrope reproducer?
Panatropes come with their own tonearm. It's not an aftermarket reproducer but part of a carefully done system.

The Panatrope reproducer. This one was carefully reconstructed from parts. Notice ball bearing fulcrum, pleated diaphragm made of very thin aluminum, and the near-complete lack of rubber. All gaskets are paper. A Panatrope does not have gasket problems, and if adjusted it will play well. This one is a mix of mechanical parts from two pot-metal reproducers, fitted into a brass body. With appropriate care it should last about a century before it's due for another few adjustments.

DSC01442.JPG


The tone arm will rest with the needle down without dragging the needle on the deck and scratching the finish. Underneath the turntable is an autobrake system similar to the one on earlier Brunswicks fitted with the Ultona. The pivot is ball-bearing supported and requires little service. I've never seen a Panatrope with a damaged tonearm support, though the pot-metal reproducer bodies may swell.


IMG_20210111_180040.jpg
Sure, I know that much. After all, I owned one and can attest to it being the finest available. Mine needed adjustment, and to any out there I HIGHLY recommend greasing the ball bearings- it swings a lot easier after you do.
What I'm curious about is how he managed to fit that onto an Edison machine with the horn neck.

gramophoneshane
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Re: Orthoponic and orthophonic styles machines

Post by gramophoneshane »

gunnarthefeisty wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:07 pm
What I'm curious about is how he managed to fit that onto an Edison machine with the horn neck.
By simply removing the original soundbox from the Edison lateral adaptor and fitting the Brunswick soundbox.

Brunswick portables don't use the same fat tonearm used on larger Panatropes, so the soundbox will fit any adaptor or tonearm that uses a soundbox with a standard size bayonet fitting.

CarlosV
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Re: Orthoponic and orthophonic styles machines

Post by CarlosV »

VanEpsFan1914 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:11 pm
Panatropes come with their own tonearm. It's not an aftermarket reproducer but part of a carefully done system.

The Panatrope reproducer. This one was carefully reconstructed from parts. Notice ball bearing fulcrum, pleated diaphragm made of very thin aluminum, and the near-complete lack of rubber. All gaskets are paper. A Panatrope does not have gasket problems, and if adjusted it will play well. This one is a mix of mechanical parts from two pot-metal reproducers, fitted into a brass body. With appropriate care it should last about a century before it's due for another few adjustments.

DSC01442.JPG


The tone arm will rest with the needle down without dragging the needle on the deck and scratching the finish. Underneath the turntable is an autobrake system similar to the one on earlier Brunswicks fitted with the Ultona. The pivot is ball-bearing supported and requires little service. I've never seen a Panatrope with a damaged tonearm support, though the pot-metal reproducer bodies may swell.


IMG_20210111_180040.jpg
The major drawback of the Panatrope reproducer is the direct metal-to-metal connection to the arm. Without the dampening that a rubber ring provides, it imposes a higher stress on the record groove and does not attenuate the extraneous frequencies generated in the reproducer.

gunnarthefeisty
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Re: Orthoponic and orthophonic styles machines

Post by gunnarthefeisty »

really?

JerryVan
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Re: Orthoponic and orthophonic styles machines

Post by JerryVan »

gunnarthefeisty wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:26 am really?

Yes, really...

gunnarthefeisty
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Re: Orthoponic and orthophonic styles machines

Post by gunnarthefeisty »

I think, although I may be wrong, the reproducer/tonearm is lighter. It seemed that way compared to an orthophonic

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