Tungsten vs. steel needles?

[CMcPherson]

So I've been vaguely aware that some like to use tungsten needles rather than steel.
Is it longevity or sound quality that motivates this?
Does a tungsten needle wear to form to the record groove like a steel one does?

[startgroove]

It depends on which type of record you are using. Tungsten needles were intended to be used with the earlier electrically recorded discs. When so used, 100 to 300 plays are possible. They will work on acoustic recordings, but there will be problems, such as abnormal groove wear and short life of the needle. It would cause additional unnecessary wear to use the same tungsten needle back and forth between an acoustic record and an electric record..

To answer your questions, it is longevity of the electric recordings, longevity of the needle, and the quality of sound that are benefits of using tungsten needles.
And, yes, a tungsten needle does wear into the groove, although much slower than a steel needle.

[estott]

Tungsten needles have the advantage of consistent sound throughout the record (assuming he record is in proper condition)

They are also useful if you are playing a multi-record piece and want to change discs quickly

I've found instances when they have a superior sound to steel, though there is no hard and fast rule

[Markola]

I'd love to try some (I really enjoy playing some of the earlier electrically recorded discs on my Victrolas). Is there a good source for getting tungsten needles?

[startgroove]

Markola,

I not heard of a source for new Tungsten needles, though I see original ones offered occasionally on Ebay.

Here is a thread on making them; http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=3757

[CMcPherson]

Tungsten needles have the advantage of consistent sound throughout the record (assuming he record is in proper condition)

Because of this?

And, yes, a tungsten needle does wear into the groove, although much slower than a steel needle.

[CMcPherson]

Markola,

I not heard of a source for new Tungsten needles, though I see original ones offered occasionally on Ebay.

Here is a thread on making them; http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=3757

This is the thread that got me to wondering.
So is it either make your own or find new-old-stock?

Are these advantages realized using a HMV #4 with electric recordings or should it be reserved for actual ortho equipment only?

[OrthoFan]

There's a bit of history about Tungs-Tone needles here: http://www.gracyk.com/needletips.shtml

As noted, during WWI, "restrictions were placed on commercial uses of steel, so Victor developed a needle with a reproducing tip made of tungsten, a metal that never made the list of restricted materials." This was in 1916, or nine years before electrically recorded discs hit the market. After the introduction of electrical recording and Orthophonic Victrolas/Electrolas, they were heavily marketed.

I've talked to collectors over the years and the opinions about them are mixed. Some were in favor of using tungsten based needles while others felt that they do more damage to records than conventional steel needles. Some said steel sounds better, while some preferred tungsten. Based on my own experience, I prefer steel needles--crisper highs and less surface noise depending on the type of record played--both for my Orthophonic (4-40) and my Vic. V.

One suggestion I've gotten from several collectors is, when using a tungsten needle the "first" time--whether NOS or slightly used--is to let it trace the run-off groove for about a minute before actually playing a record. This enables the tip to wear down slightly to conform to the shape of the groove.

Along this line, to reduce wear and maximize the sound quality, the sound box should be in optimum condition--rebuilt with fresh gaskets and properly adjusted. I once tried using a Tungs-Tone needle on an as-found #2 sound box, equipped with original petrified gaskets, and it chewed up the record groove.

OF