Winding your machines.

[OrthoFan]

I once (and ONLY once!) made the mistake of removing the governor from its bearings, for lubrication, while the motor was completely wound up. It didn't stay wound up for long! In an instant the springs released, splattering grease from various gears all over my shirt. Now I don't know whether (a) broken governor spring(s) would have the same effect, but I'm not going to perform the experiment to find out!

Hi Henry:

Something like that happened to me about 25 years ago--or about ten years before the Credenza incident. (I was always having incidents with the Credenza, about two or three per month, but that's a long story, best saved for Phonoland.)

It was my first upright, a Silvertone model. I wanted to clean and re-lubricate the governor spindle because it had a tendency to run sluggish. I thought the motor had unwound, but there was just enough tension in the mainsprings to make the barrel spin wildly when I removed the governor shaft. It sprayed me, as well as the carpeting and part of the wall (painted white, of course). I was able to clean the carpet, but I had to repaint the wall. It took about five coats, but I'm glad to report that my landlady never found out about it.

With the Credenza, if I remember right, what I did was to remove the governor from its shaft while turntable was still "braked." Then, I had to let it unwind slowly by touching the rim with my finger.

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Back on topic, I know that the Victrola owners manuals mention winding the instrument, then releasing the brake, but they don't say it has to be done in this order. Based on previous experience, I'm more comfortable releasing the brake before I wind. Also, I always let my machines wind down after I've played them, regardless of how often I play them, so the brake is normally released before I turn the crank.

OF

[Brad]

I would have voted for "I will wind with the brake on or off, it doesn't matter to me", but that option was not in the survey. I mostly wind then release the brake. I am not a materials expert, but my understanding is that metal will not fatigue under tension as quickly as it will while being flexed, so I would believe that a spring is more likely to break the more it is wound/unwound, so I don't let it unwind when I am not playing.

I recently read in Frows Diamond Disc book a mention of the development of the springs for the disc phonograph and they being good for ~1600-2400 winds (I don't remember the exact number, but it was of that order.

Which brings me to a topic I have always wondered about: How many of us have had a spring break on them? Did it break while winding, playing, or at rest?

I have never had one break on me but I have replaced several mainsprings on machines I have aquired so I know it is not unusual.

(Now that I have jinxed myself with that last statement, I will have to retract that statement next time I play a machine )

[Lenoirstreetguy]

I'm back. First let me say that I've had springs break: my old Brunswick Ultona snapped when I was winding lo these many years ago. Now as to recommendations, I got out my tattered copy of Gramophones: Acoustic and Radio and looked up their recommendations. This dandy little handbook was published by The Gramophone Magazine about 1932( it's undated). They say wind while it's running, but not playing which is where my addled brain got the idea that you weren't to wind while the motor was running. In another chapter they expand the point made here that you should let the springs be worked evenly, that is to say wind a double spring motor up completely and then let it play several sides before you rewind. And as a bonus the Meltrope ad was on the same page.


Jim

[OrthoFan]

Interesting. I know that some cheaper machines could not be wound while playing, but I've never seen it stated, "don't wind up the motor while playing a record." (Unless this means, "don't put a record on a turntable, put the needle in the groove, and then wind the motor." I can see how that would damage a record; possibly the sound box too.)

In a few Victor owner's manuals, this point was actually addressed:

"Although the motor is so designed that it can be wound while a record is being played, it is advisable to wind a little before the beginning of each record, as this will prevent it from running down while the record is being played." From -- http://www.nipperhead.com/old/vic9009.htm

As to the point about letting the springs run down when the Victrola is not in use:

"When actually not in service, the motor should be allowed to run down, as the pressure on the running parts, due to the pull of the mainspring being always in the same direction, may prove detrimental to these parts, and also tend to force the lubricant from between the coils of the springs and the oil from the bearings." From -- http://www.nipperhead.com/old/vic9010.htm

I'm know opinions differ, but I'm sure this advice wasn't included in the Victrola manuals just for the heck of it. In any event, I've always followed it.

[larryh]

Yes at times I have allowed the machines to run out completely till they quit, which as you say is the recommended way to do so. But I have been lax at that all my life an so far it doesn't seem to have effected much of anything, but then I have had an occasional broken spring, mostly also with the credenzas for some reason? I did have an on going issue with the credenza wanting to jump wildly even though the springs were rebuilt twice, both times by very well known repair people. Quite frustrating to be sure. Someone wondered if the barrel might have had some kind of burr against the inner wall that might have prevented the spring from unwinding till it built enough pressure to release with a thump?

[estott]

Which brings me to a topic I have always wondered about: How many of us have had a spring break on them? Did it break while winding, playing, or at rest?

I've had four springs break on me. Three broke while winding (a portable, a VV-VI and an Edison Home) and one broke while the record was playing- it was an HMV 109, there was a muffled bang, a rushing noise, and the turntable stopped dead.

[OrthoFan]

...How many of us have had a spring break on them? Did it break while winding, playing, or at rest?

My VV-80's spring broke while playing a record. (That was after it came back from a repair shop, where I had the entire motor cleaned and re-greased--at least, that's what I was charged for.)

My Silvertone Phonograph's spring detached while winding. (I was able to reattach it.)

My Consolette's (first) spring broke while winding it. A week after I got it back from the repair shop, the (second) spring broke while playing a record.

My Credenza's (first) spring (in # one barrel) broke while winding it. About a month after I got it back from the repair shop, a second spring broke while playing a record. (That was in # two barrel, which had been cleaned and re-packed by the repair company at the time I had the first spring fixed.)

My HMV 102 came with a broken spring, so that doesn't count...

The spring in the VV-2-55, which I nearly bought last year, broke while the seller was demonstrating it to me.


I hesitate to say anything about the three machines I now own. I don't want to jinx myself.

OF

[bbphonoguy]

I've always let the springs on my Victrolas run down, and then give the crank one or two turns before closing it up when I'm done. The only reason I do this is because my grandfather (who was around when these machines were new, and who worked in a tool and die shop, so I figured he must've known something about mechanical stuff) advised me on it.

It's never occured to me to let the turntable spin while winding (unless it's running down in the middle of a record) I was surprised to find that some of us prefer to start the Victrola that way.