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 Post subject: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1564
I am including a photo I took this morning of the run off on a record showing very obviously where the arm had been lowered. I have purchased four new needles and of those only one in not doing this or worse. I know some think it may not matter. I have a tendency to think that if I can easily see where the needle is going over the surface of the music, which it now does, then something is amiss. Sadly although I haven't personally contacted Expert recently, their opinions have mostly run to the "we didn't do it" reply. I have not abused the needles to my knowledge and three out of four seems rather convincing that something is wrong somewhere. The party that sold and installed them, while a fine person, is pretty much ignoring the issue as well. So what to think when your left with rather expensive needles that prove to not last more than a year, and some of them from day one.

I know we have had this discussion before, but I am at my witts end as to how to get around it. I need several heads to work with to ease my comparisons of diaphragms, but I am now probably down to only one. My one original needle while not leaving a line, is either slightly worn or the stylus bar is a hair loose because no matter what I do it won't play without a buzz in places the others do not. That is the sad part, this needle sounds great, but I don't like the wear to the records especially at the price many of the cost now days.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:16 pm 
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Victor IV
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"Did you ever stop to think that pleasure is a duty?" (Victor sales pamphlet)
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:19 pm
Posts: 1449
Larry
I certainly sympathize with you and your frustration with your replacement Edison stylii. I figure that all the repair people get their new stock from the only supplier, Expert Stylus. It's too bad that it seems difficult to get any satisfactory answers from anyone regarding this. If they weren't in England maybe someone could go right to their facility and get some straightforward answers after seeing firsthand the problems you've been having. Then again, it might be the first time they'd have seen an actual Edison setup!
I wonder if new stylii that show tracings when installed benefit at all from a few hour's time in playing records and if the tip is polished or shaped so that the tracings diminish. Also, with all of the swapping-out you do with your diaphragm experiments, is it possible that the playback angle of the stylus changes slightly with each setup, and could that cause problems itself, rather than what normally happens when a stylus and diaphragm are installed and paired together for years?
I hope you have at least one reproducer that you're happy with, so that you don't feel you're ruining your records each time you play them!
Best luck with your continued experiments!
Bob
"Comparison is the thief of joy" Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1564
Hi Bob,

Well I suppose that the variation of linkage is a minor issue but I have a jig I made to measure fairly close so that at least on my machines the basic same level of stylus will normally be pretty close. Once in a while one gets off for some reason but usually I catch it pretty fast.

The needle doing the marks shown is one purchased about a year and a half ago I would think, time passes, it might have been somewhat longer. It left no mark at the start. One of the new ones left a very obvious mark from the start. At the time the people at Expert said it was due to being chipped in installation. A different party installed that one and denied their claim on that one. The other three didn't make any kind of mark at the beginning, but two of those now do, this one be the least noticeable.

I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but unless I misunderstood the information from Expert these stylus are not really Diamonds in the sense the originals were, these are a form of man made ones I am pretty sure. I have been told that a diamond it self shouldn't wear unless damaged in some way that would render it able to gouge at the surface. So the theory that the needle angle would quickly result in a problem may not be correct at least for originals. In fact the head that leaves me with a bit of a external noise is an old one and it has been subject to the same kinds of use as the others and it still is impossible to tell where it has traversed.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Victor II
A man is not a man who does not make the world a better place
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:46 pm
Posts: 376
Location: Arizona
Hi All,
I would think that would be the time to perhaps get some of the experts in the field involved. Since it is safe to say that ALL of the diamonds for our photos are coming from the same place all our vender's are going to face the same problem. My 90 year dad just retired from the the jewelery business and his answer to me is that man made diamonds-as good as many folks say they are are not the same. While he gave up diamond cutting at 70 he did play around with the man made stuff and he said that they were%$#@* when it came to cutting and polishing them. They are not like the real stuff and maybe that is the problem.
That being said the small stuff that we use is not expensive since it is industrial grade and very few points to boot. He asked are we SURE that they are using man-made and perhaps that is were we need to start.
Can any of our experts and vender's just in here?
Abe


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:00 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1564
I just heard from my seller that Expert says they are not man made diamonds as I thought. That makes it all the worse, why are they deteriorating so quickly. I am not the only complaint for sure. He commented that a rather well known now deceased diaphragm expert said the diamonds were poor quality. I do now recall that Expert had done some kind of sole searching a while back and I believe mentioned to me that they had gone back to the original specs as some kind of production problem might have been causing issues at that point. All somewhat hear say i suppose, except that I did correspond with the manger for these diamonds at Expert for a while and that is my recollection. What ever the issue is it has been widely discussed for years and one would think that something as hard as a diamond would hold up if properly made?


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:21 pm 
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Victor II
A man is not a man who does not make the world a better place
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:46 pm
Posts: 376
Location: Arizona
I wonder is anyone in England on this board that is close enough to these guys to go and visit them and find out just were they are with this-a face to face may just get the job done. If we can make sure that the diamonds are good-cut right and polished correctly than we can go to the mounting and aligment issues. Until we can learn if the stylus is good than we are just shooting in the dark.
Abe


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:25 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1564
Today I sent an email with the above photo to them with an explanation of the fact that three out of the four new needles from them were displaying this issue. They were slow to respond when I first contacted them after the first poor needle which they chalked up to being chipped by the installer. Now with two more that didn't do it at the start we will see what kind of response I get.


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:51 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 464
Location: greater bubbaville
It's disappointing to read this about Expert. Last year I ran across NOS styli for diamond disc from one of the on-line suppliers, but can't remember which one. After reading this topic I wish I had bought a couple of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:55 am 
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Victor II
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 235
Larry,
I think you need to examine the diamond under a microscope and compare it to one of known good quality to determine if it's the diamond or some alignment problem with your machine.
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Edison New Needle issues still!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1564
Dave,

The thing is that the diamonds did not do this for some time, but later developed it. Except the first one which scratched badly from day one. Either way the
stylus bar is generally pretty close to the level position. Something as hard as a diamond should not be cutting the records. I could see if it were up or down a bit too much it might change the outer edges of a groove a bit, but the point of the needle is riding the grooves at all times an marking such as it is I still don't think is normal.

I have various other parties that are experiencing the same issues and surly all of their machines are not out of adjustment. But I suppose its a possibility since the cause remains unknown it seems. What I wonder is why are the two original diamonds I have that are nearly 100 years old by now are leaving no lines operating with the same machine adjustments?

Larry


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