Are VE electric XVI Victrolas worth buying?

[PeterF]

Our first house was built in 1931, and we bought it in 1991, from the original family when the mom went into the nursing home. It was pretty much all original, and well-kept.

Our arrival meant the house had a microwave and a toaster oven for the first time, and after discovering a SUPER hot line cord to the toaster oven by accident (as well as noticing how lights dimmed when turning it on), I went and looked at the fuse box.

Six screw-in fuses for the whole house, and four of them had pennies wrapped in tinfoil behind them. Close call!

[startgroove]

zenith82 is absolutely correct in my opinion. It was not the appliances that caused house fires in the old days, it was a misunderstanding about loading a circuit, and subsequent overloading of substandard house wiring. Modern Electrical Code requirements have lessened the dangers of house wiring failures to an extremely low possibility.

Worst case scenario with Victrola electric motors and wiring is overheating. Strong unpleasant odors and then significant amounts of smoke are the worst symptoms of electrical failures in an early electric phonograph. Those are things that will be quite obvious before fire occurs, giving the user time to react (by pulling the plug). If someone wants to prevent that from happening altogether, it is a simple matter to add a fuse in the power line.


In my experience, it is quite rare that early electric motors fail spontaneously. Something usually causes the failure. Overloading them is a common cause of failure, that causes excessive heat to build up and that can lead to a circuit opening, or insulation decomposing and causing a short.

Old insulation on wires or in motors can become dangerous if it has turned brittle AND then someone moves it around or bends it excessively. Leaving it alone does not disintegrate the insulation, and it will still do its job if it is not disintegrated. There is an exception. The power cord, the one going to the wall outlet, is frequently moved around, bent or otherwise flexed. It should ALWAYS be replaced with new cloth covered wire.

[GregVTLA]

So funny - in my own case I will happily and fearlessly mess with old wiring all day, but opening a spring barrel utterly terrifies me.

I completely agree with Peter's sentiment. Besides, once the motor is unplugged it is near impossible to get shocked unless something strange is happening. Replace a few wires and the Victor electric motors can be more reliable than their spring counterparts. And a rewire job is a quick one when equipped with the right tools, plus it's not super greasy! I love my spring machines, but I'd rather repair 5 electric motors then repack a single Credenza motor.

Greg

[Jonsheff]

Thanks for all the great info, i think i will pick it up. As i said before, i am not a collector, i have professionally refinishing furniture (high end commercial office furniture) for more than 25 years and take great care and detail in my work. I dont refurbish the Victrolas, i remanufacture them from top to bottom. I dont aim for the collector market and really dont care what clear coat is preferred as i know the units i produce come out beautifull and typically sell within 2 weeks of listing them. There is not much competition that offers a reasonable price with shipping anywhere in the usa. The people buying these do seem to like them, here is a copy and paste from a XVI I sold to a guy in Maryland;

Jon... I cannot get over how fantastic this victrola is!! It’s absolutely gorgeous, and working beautifully! Out of curiosity, what kind of shape was it in when you first started working on it? Do you have before and after photos, by any chance? Do you know any of it’s history, previous owners, and so forth? Once again... thank you so much for fixing her up and putting her up for sale. I feel like I purchased a genuine time machine!!!!

Its that kind of response that keeps me interested (and the money is nice too)

[PeterF]

I suppose putting a plastic finish on a machine that is allowed to still function as intended is a little bit better than converting it into a gutted and pastel-painted “shabby chic” liquor cabinet.

Perhaps some future owner can fix it.

[Jonsheff]

I suppose putting a plastic finish on a machine that is allowed to still function as intended is a little bit better than converting it into a gutted and pastel-painted “shabby chic” liquor cabinet.

Perhaps some future owner can fix it.

Does this one look like it needs to be "fixed"? a common VV-100 I sold for $1,000 in December.

[PeterF]

Yup, definitely.

It’s plastic, overly shiny, an incorrect shade, and just not right.

Glad you can make money at it, but we’re collectors here so we need things to be correct rather than pretty. Perhaps this practice is not as bad if you do it to common ones like the example shown, and from the sound of it your clients would never know the difference.

I’d say that the same clientele would shy away from an electric motor, preferring the romantic notion of the crank. So why not pass on this XVI, and shoot for something more up their alley?

[gramophone-georg]

Yup, definitely.

It’s plastic, overly shiny, an incorrect shade, and just not right.

Glad you can make money at it, but we’re collectors here so we need things to be correct rather than pretty. Perhaps this practice is not as bad if you do it to common ones like the example shown, and from the sound of it your clients would never know the difference.

I’d say that the same clientele would shy away from an electric motor, preferring the romantic notion of the crank. So why not pass on this XVI, and shoot for something more up their alley?

I agree. It's like finishing a Porsche 356 in base/clear. Looks great/ not correct. There really IS such a thing as overrestored.

Jonsheff, not saying it's not pretty.

[Django]

Thanks for all the great info, i think i will pick it up. As i said before, i am not a collector, i have professionally refinishing furniture (high end commercial office furniture) for more than 25 years and take great care and detail in my work. I dont refurbish the Victrolas, i remanufacture them from top to bottom. I dont aim for the collector market and really dont care what clear coat is preferred as i know the units i produce come out beautifull and typically sell within 2 weeks of listing them. There is not much competition that offers a reasonable price with shipping anywhere in the usa. The people buying these do seem to like them, here is a copy and paste from a XVI I sold to a guy in Maryland;

Jon... I cannot get over how fantastic this victrola is!! It’s absolutely gorgeous, and working beautifully! Out of curiosity, what kind of shape was it in when you first started working on it? Do you have before and after photos, by any chance? Do you know any of it’s history, previous owners, and so forth? Once again... thank you so much for fixing her up and putting her up for sale. I feel like I purchased a genuine time machine!!!!

Its that kind of response that keeps me interested (and the money is nice too)

Your customer appears to be very happy, but they are also wanting to know something about it's past. Sometimes a machine requires extensive restoring, but it is only a restoration if it remains authentic, (materials matter). I hope that you pass on this machine. It is a shame that when you do these "high end" remanufacturings, that you don't at least finish it with a proper material. I suppose that the basic machine is at least preserved under that candy coating, but its history, character and authenticity are lost, probably forever. That may not mean anything to someone who sees only dollar signs, but it means everything to people who treasure these machines and try our best to properly preserve these machines. They are relics of a bygone era of craftsmanship, creative design and beauty which will probably never exist again, but some see them only as a source of increased income, and I find that sad.

[Jonsheff]

Your customer appears to be very happy, but they are also wanting to know something about it's past. Sometimes a machine requires extensive restoring, but it is only a restoration if it remains authentic, (materials matter). I hope that you pass on this machine. It is a shame that when you do these "high end" manufacturing, that you don't at least finish it with a proper material. I suppose that the basic machine is at least preserved under that candy coating, but its history, character and authenticity are lost, probably forever. That may not mean anything to someone who sees only dollar signs, but it means everything to people who treasure these machines and try our best to properly preserve these machines. They are relics of a bygone era of craftsmanship, creative design and beauty which will probably never exist again, but some see them only as a source of increased income, and I find that sad.[/quote]

The customer chose the full gloss on that machine, I normally use semi as it is closer to the original shine. The machines I am restoring were going to end up in the scrap yard in most cases, completely shot finish and so bad no one in their right mind would have them sitting in their living rooms. At least restored they are being used again and enjoyed for the first time in many years and in most cases opening the door to new (old) music. I don't think that the clear coat used is necessarily ruining the machine for future generations. I don't do them strictly for the money or I wouldn't put all the time and trouble into the full refurbishment process, there are certainly easier ways to make money than that. for anyone who has stripped down and done a complete rebuild can appreciate what it takes to get them done.

After reading all the posts about the VE electric XVI, I think I am going to pass on it, the risk of it burning down someones house or electrocuting them is not worth it. Also, I agree that the crank type are more appealing.