Not sure if this should be a featured phonograph, I really don't have a lot of basic information, but I'll tell you what I have so far.
It seems not many of these have survived, and those that have, are not complete. I picked this one up in December. It runs, but I need to fix the tonearm bracket. Working on it...
No idea who made the cabinet, can't find any words or marks to give a hint. Horn, motor, and tonearm were made in or around Chicago, so probably the cabinet was as well.
I would LOVE to see the Montgomery Ward catalog ad for this, and how much it originally sold for. No luck in finding it yet, though. They did seem to try to use components that did justice to electrically recorded records, even if their horn and soundbox weren't as fancy as an Orthophonic or a Viva-Tonal.
If anyone else here will provide similar pictures for the innards of a Sears Tru-Phonic, or any other Credenza clone, I'll very much appreciate it!
Bill
Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
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- Victor O
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- Victor V
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
That looks to be a replacement reproducer. The original would have been like the one featured in this post -- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6625 -- but gold colored. Unfortunately, the original reproducers suffered as much from pot metal issues as the Orthophonic sound boxes.
OrthoFan
OrthoFan
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
Nice find. The horn looks to be a true exponential design. I don’t know what the dimensions are on the tone arm but if it could be adapted to take a British Meltrope III soundbox or an Orthophonic, the results may be very good.
Montgomery Wards based in Chicago would have access for furniture construction in Grand Rapids, Rockford Illinois or any of other Midwest furniture manufacturers. The reason why I mentioned Rockford as I used to live there an encountered much evidence of its furniture making past. I once had a Grafonola with hardware made by National Lock. Another long lost Rockford manufacture.
Again a very nice find!
Glenn
Montgomery Wards based in Chicago would have access for furniture construction in Grand Rapids, Rockford Illinois or any of other Midwest furniture manufacturers. The reason why I mentioned Rockford as I used to live there an encountered much evidence of its furniture making past. I once had a Grafonola with hardware made by National Lock. Another long lost Rockford manufacture.
Again a very nice find!
Glenn
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- Victor II
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
Thanks for the side-by-side comparison pics. It would be interesting to find out, whenever a catalog page turns up, how the Cecilian was priced versus the Victrola. I would guess cheaper, but that cabinet still cost something to produce even then. Thanks for a look at the speaker set up, a number of 1920s radio horns and internal speakers used molded paper/cardboard composition, but this one is almost a work of art. Keep us posted on the restoration, I'd be interested in your opinion of the sound when it's all tuned up. A great find for sure.
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- Victor VI
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
Please stick round on the forum and share more as you restore this uncommon survivor. I'm impressed with the massive Newcomb Hawley horn--it should have a potent sound, and papier-mâché is not so prone to unpleasant resonances as metal. A cheap metal horn could come unsoldered or uncrimped and then you would have a buzz in the audio. But that big one should be fine to use to this day.
That cabinet with its unabashedly Art Deco pattern on the doors is a lot more daring than the staid solidity of the Victrola Credenza. The two make an appealing contrast together.
Have you played a record on it yet?
That cabinet with its unabashedly Art Deco pattern on the doors is a lot more daring than the staid solidity of the Victrola Credenza. The two make an appealing contrast together.
Have you played a record on it yet?
- gramophone-georg
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
Agree- this is a really cool machine. I actually ran across one of these about 40 years ago at a sale. I didn't have any room for it, though. It sounded fan- freakin' tastic... and more stylish than a Credenza and more unusual than an 810. If I recall, the grille cloth was more brownish gold like an 810 but it's been a few weeks.
Anyways... this thread sparked a memory of something in my parts stash... and sure enough I found it.
The pot metal is above average, which is to say slightly crumbly in spots but not falling apart- seems quite sound structurally- pun intended. The only caveat is that there is no set screw to hold it on the arm. A Victrola No. 4 set screw fits and it's the same idea, only the "point" needs to be quite a bit longer. The isolator is shot but I'll bet you could dig what's left out and fill it with silicone- or maybe better yet, let Mica Monster take a look.
I stuck a needle in it and played an Orthophonic High Hatters record- heavy on the bass- just freehand with it for a few bars. It's quite loud and doesn't rattle just as it is- handled the bass just fine. Diaphragm seems perfect through the arm mount hole- no bumps or dents.
The ID of the mounting hole is 20mm or 7/10 of an inch according to my digital caliper.
If you can use it- it's yours. I'll even cover the postage (in USA!)- either direct to you or to Wyatt (Mica Monster) if you prefer.
This is great seeing one of these forgotten beasts.
Oh, and full disclosure: I worked for Montgomery Ward through undergrad and part of grad school.
Anyways... this thread sparked a memory of something in my parts stash... and sure enough I found it.
The pot metal is above average, which is to say slightly crumbly in spots but not falling apart- seems quite sound structurally- pun intended. The only caveat is that there is no set screw to hold it on the arm. A Victrola No. 4 set screw fits and it's the same idea, only the "point" needs to be quite a bit longer. The isolator is shot but I'll bet you could dig what's left out and fill it with silicone- or maybe better yet, let Mica Monster take a look.
I stuck a needle in it and played an Orthophonic High Hatters record- heavy on the bass- just freehand with it for a few bars. It's quite loud and doesn't rattle just as it is- handled the bass just fine. Diaphragm seems perfect through the arm mount hole- no bumps or dents.
The ID of the mounting hole is 20mm or 7/10 of an inch according to my digital caliper.
If you can use it- it's yours. I'll even cover the postage (in USA!)- either direct to you or to Wyatt (Mica Monster) if you prefer.
This is great seeing one of these forgotten beasts.
Oh, and full disclosure: I worked for Montgomery Ward through undergrad and part of grad school.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek
I got PTSD from Peter F's avatar
I got PTSD from Peter F's avatar
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- Victor O
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
When I picked up the Melophonic, the man I bought it from said he'd bought it at an auction, and for some reason tried to take the tonearm assembly off, and missed taking out one of the screws. He pried up on the ring and cracked it, allowing the balls to fall out of the bearing. He lost all but 2 of the 3/16" balls, so I had to order some.
I held the tonearm in position with my hand to play a bit of a record, but it wasn't sealed at all. All I can say is it was loud enough. I'll report back when I get it playing, and maybe do a side by side comparison with the Credenza.
On a different note, J B Hawley who had patented the horn, also designed what everyone now knows as the Pith Helmet, using a wood fiber lining.
I held the tonearm in position with my hand to play a bit of a record, but it wasn't sealed at all. All I can say is it was loud enough. I'll report back when I get it playing, and maybe do a side by side comparison with the Credenza.
On a different note, J B Hawley who had patented the horn, also designed what everyone now knows as the Pith Helmet, using a wood fiber lining.
- gramophone-georg
- Victor VI
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
Looks like 7/10 of an inch translates to 11/16. Yeah, I had to Google it... sorry but I am a metric guy.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek
I got PTSD from Peter F's avatar
I got PTSD from Peter F's avatar
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- Victor VI
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
^^ Understandable if you've restored a bunch of German cars.
Glad to see a reproducer for this mighty beast has surfaced in just such a short time. If it passed a test with a High Hatters recording that really did pass something--those guys were pretty fast and loud and their records are both big fun to hear and a severe challenge for whatever machine they get played on.
To hold the ball bearings in when you're fixing it again, try painting the inside ring of the tonearm with axle grease, and this should hold them. There might be a spacer inside there with room for like five bearings--at least there is on the early Victor Victrolas, to keep the ball bearings equidistant one from another.
If MicaMonster (the great Wyatt Markus) touches that reproducer watch out! It will come back sounding better than anything you ever heard before. I need to send him an Edison reproducer, speaking of...that will be fun to hear when it's back; it's been shade tree mechanicked too much over the last century.
Have you plans to rebuild the original motor yet? That thing looks like fun to work on--I wonder if the gears are in an oil bath or if they are just enclosed. Either way, it should keep out the dust and dirt.
Glad to see a reproducer for this mighty beast has surfaced in just such a short time. If it passed a test with a High Hatters recording that really did pass something--those guys were pretty fast and loud and their records are both big fun to hear and a severe challenge for whatever machine they get played on.
To hold the ball bearings in when you're fixing it again, try painting the inside ring of the tonearm with axle grease, and this should hold them. There might be a spacer inside there with room for like five bearings--at least there is on the early Victor Victrolas, to keep the ball bearings equidistant one from another.
If MicaMonster (the great Wyatt Markus) touches that reproducer watch out! It will come back sounding better than anything you ever heard before. I need to send him an Edison reproducer, speaking of...that will be fun to hear when it's back; it's been shade tree mechanicked too much over the last century.
Have you plans to rebuild the original motor yet? That thing looks like fun to work on--I wonder if the gears are in an oil bath or if they are just enclosed. Either way, it should keep out the dust and dirt.
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- Victor O
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Re: Cecilian Melophonic, a Montgomery Ward's Credenza Clone
Thanks for the tip on getting the bearing back together, VanEpsFan1914. If I have to put something back together that I didn't take apart, it usually takes me 10x the time!
The motor seems to be running well for the moment. There's a picture of a a 2 spring equivalent with the cover open on another topic, but being new at this, I can't figure out how to link to it. It does appear that it's in an oil bath.
The motor seems to be running well for the moment. There's a picture of a a 2 spring equivalent with the cover open on another topic, but being new at this, I can't figure out how to link to it. It does appear that it's in an oil bath.