Baird's Concert cylinder machine

[coyote]

Before using discs to record the video signal ("Phonovision") Baird apparently experimented using cylinders. Can anyone posit the maker of the machine Baird is using here in the mid to late 20s?

I can imagine if the Phonovision concept had been viable, many of us would also be collecting Phonovision discs and Phonovisors today.

[startgroove]

Appears to be the second version of the Concert. For reference I've included a pic.

[coyote]

Thank you! That does appear to be the machine, right down to the lid latch. I wonder what is wrapped around the mandrel. It does not appear to be of one conjoined piece like a conventional cylinder, but rather have a slit like the old tinfoil concept, but thicker. I wonder if one could find concert-sized blanks in the 20s without shaving recorded cylinders.

[fran604g]

Thank you! That does appear to be the machine, right down to the lid latch. I wonder what is wrapped around the mandrel. It does not appear to be of one conjoined piece like a conventional cylinder, but rather have a slit like the old tinfoil concept, but thicker. I wonder if one could find concert-sized blanks in the 20s without shaving recorded cylinders.

I think what you may be seeing in the image is a catch-pan for the swarf. Looking at it closely as large as I can, the cylinder does appear to be continuous.

Best,
Fran

[coyote]

Thanks, Fran. I thought it looked odd, but couldn't imagine what it could be. Although it looks curved, it might also be the end of the straight-edge, with the angle making it look odd.

[ChuckA]

Where did you find the picture? It appears to be from a newspaper or magazine article, was there any description attached to the picture?

From the equipment seen and his age it looks like the picture was taken in the mid 20's. You can see the globe style tubes in the amplifier and the horn style speaker. Also he looks to be in his mid 30's, very much the same as he looked in pictures in 1928-1929 when demonstrating his system. The machine looks like a circa 1902 Edison-Bell duplex, you can see the smaller mandrel edge at the center of the concert mandrel.

A concert cylinder may have appeared to be a good choice, by the 1920's it would have been a cheap device to use and easy to record on and be able to reuse by shaving.

Chuck

[startgroove]

Here are a couple of interesting short videos about recent playbacks of Baird's discs.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ph ... &FORM=VIRE
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ph ... ORM=VDRVRV

AND, here is an amazing video of Betty Bolton performing in the first music video, ca. 1933!
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ph ... ORM=VDRVRV

[coyote]

Where did you find the picture? It appears to be from a newspaper or magazine article, was there any description attached to the picture?

This is from Restoring Baird's Image by Donald F. McLean, who was primarily responsible for obtaining the relatively clear Phonovision images linked above. The photograph seems to originally have been published in a book, Popular Television by Barton Chapple (1935). The caption by McLean is:

Baird with phonograph equipment. The original caption by Barton Chapple
refers to Baird 'carrying out his original Phonovision recording
experiments'. --From 'Popular Television', Barton Chapple, 1935

I would say the actual photo dates from before September, 1927, when Baird was using discs pressed by the Columbia Graphophone Company. This is under the presumption that Baird first experimented with cylinders before moving to discs. The only other reference to cylinder recording is another photo on the facing page showing Baird's apparatus for Noctovision, dated 1927, with a standard size cylinder sitting in front of a mechanism with a flywheel and standard size mandrel.

I was wondering if the machine might be an Edison-Bell, as that would be more prevalent in Britain than the Edison machine.

Mr. McLean's website covering Phonovision is https://www.tvdawn.com/

[edisonphonoworks]

What would the video cylinder sound like, as audio? I won an Edison concert cylinder in a Columbia box, and it came yesterday. (Columbia 5" cylinders have a beveled left end, while Edison's are slightly rounded and abrupt, both have double helix wax thread cores.) When I looked at the recording on it, it looked similar to the signal on Baird's televisor discs. I will be uploading a video of my playing it. It kind of sounds like a really loud trumpet, but then a series of high pitched beeps. I will make some more videos of it at different speeds, and using my big 5' horn, instead of the little 14" one. I uploaded it to the phonograph groups of facebook, however I don't think many collectors knows about the video to cylinder experiments, all explanations kind of steered clear of the possibility of it being this format.

[ChuckA]

If you are interested in hearing what Baird's 30 line TV recordings sounds like :

http://www.tvdawn.com/earliest-tv/phono ... ing-discs/

To read about his system and the recovery of video from Baird's early recordings from
surviving discs:

http://www.tvdawn.com/earliest-tv/phono ... s-1927-28/


Chuck