G&T Gramophone. All present and correct?

[Josh Cattermole 1999]

Hi guys,

Sorry about all of these posts asking for help. Still on the search for a machine. There are no UK based coin op machines so I've gone back to looking for a nice early piece to play my discs on. I spotted this for sale in the UK. Advertised as a Gramophone and Typewriter with a Saturn Goldring electric soundbox, perhaps dating from around 1905. The price is something I'd be happy paying, but before dishing out I was wondering if you guys could run your eyes over the pictures just in case there's something I'm missing? I'm hoping it's all original (apart from the soundbox): the decal, finishing, horn etc... Also, any idea if a specific year can be pinned down? From what I can see the serial number on the underneath of the case in 5883. Is this a known model too? If so, any idea what it is so I can do some reading up on it? Really appreciate your help guys I'm hoping this is the one. Cheers.

The guy has a video of it playing, which is nice. Plays fine, so at least sound quality is not an issue: https://youtu.be/vxbVyD02MKQ

[gramophoneshane]

That horn doesn't belong on that machine as far as I'm aware.
The model is a Junior Monarch

[nostalgia]

I hope you can get the confirmations you need from the HMV experts, even if your thread is started in the US section of the forum, and not the UK/European section where it would be more at home. Myself, I agree with Shane, according to the HIs Master's Gramophone book, this horn does not belong to this Junior Monarch, that is pictured on page 26 in the same book. As far as I know, the horn on the machine is not a G&T/HMV horn.

[gramophoneshane]

I think that horn probably belongs on a German or Swiss machine.
The pivot at the bottom of the tonearm doesn't look quite right to me either. I'd expect it to at least match the plating of the tonearm.
The cabinet is in pretty poor shape and will take more than just a good clean to set right. And the current horn would need to be professionally restored as it looks to be falling apart.
Add to that the expense of the correct Exhibition soundbox and the correct horn, it would want to be extremely cheap as it stands now.

[nostalgia]

I again agree with Shane, I did not mention the base of the machine in the first post, even if I saw the flaws. I restored an old HMV horn gramophone a few weeks back, and the base is an important part of the machine, and also very hard to repair if it is in a poor state. Finding a donor machine, will also not be easy, as I see it.
Have you looked at the motor? I would advice also to check it, that no parts are missing etc, if you decide to go for this machine.

[JerryVan]

The damage to the base molding and the incorrect reproducer would be "deal breakers" for me. And yes, whether it's correct or incorrect, the horn is shabby.

[Josh Cattermole 1999]

Hmmm, that's a shame. Yea, the damage isn't great, and also a shame the horn isn't original either. I'm guessing it'd be a really tough challenge to find an original G&T soudnbox. And the guy is asking a grand, so I'm guessing that isn't cheap for what I'd be getting. Ah well :/ Guess I'll keep looking for another, hopefully cheaper machine.

[gramophoneshane]

Wow, he's dreaming if he thinks it's worth $1000.
I'd probably go to $300 but only because I could do the cabinet myself.
G&T soundboxes do show up occasionally but the later Gramophone Co & HMV versions are far more common.
I think for $1000 you could get a much better machine

[jamiegramo]

It's worse still, in US Dollars the price is $1227 (£975). So wrong soundbox, damaged base, badly damaged horn with poor repairs. If it was £400 I wouldn't buy it.

Josh something more original will come along at better money!

[Calle]

The best is probably the early brass horn...