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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:49 pm 
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Victor III
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gsphonos wrote:
Wow!! Congrats on getting this. You are lucky to get one AT ALL, in whatever condition!! I’m sure you will get it looking great!!

Mike



It’ll take awhile but I think I can do it!


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:12 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Obviously, restoring the wood is going to be somewhat challenging, but I think the biggest challenge will be to find an original latch and the hardware to make both doors open at the same time. The patent drawings show the hardware configuration with the gearing and you might be able to replicate them or have someone help you with that. The gears appear to be made up from two flat semi-circular pieces of steel with alternating teeth, which are then riveted together to work in conjunction with each other, but look like they fit together differently than standard gearing... they appear to mesh differently than motor drive gears.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:24 pm 
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Victor II
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So many audio formats, so little listening time!
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:49 pm
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
With a 3d printer would you be able to make them by scaling up from the drawings to create a prototype?
I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 pm 
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Victor III
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phonosandradios wrote:
With a 3d printer would you be able to make them by scaling up from the drawings to create a prototype?



That’s actually a great idea. I have “free” access to the 3D printers at my college. And I’m sure if I 3D print the pieces, the machinist can help me make them out of metal :mrgreen:

I’ll have to ask this fall!


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:51 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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phonosandradios wrote:
With a 3d printer would you be able to make them by scaling up from the drawings to create a prototype?

I think that would be possible, although 3D printing is not something I have used before. I actually think it would be simpler to enlarge the patent drawings to the correct size, trace them onto metal plates and cut them out... old school...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:23 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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You are over thinking this project with 3D printing... Look at these patent drawings, they are simple construction, not rocket science. This is an easy assembly to make, providing that you have the tools to cut some metal pieces - mainly the gear pieces, which could be cut with a band saw or scroll saw with metal cutting blades. The scissor arms are standard flat metal pieces that are available at any steel supply place or maybe even Lowes/Home Depot... This total assembly could be made in a couple of hours in a home garage... Size the pattern by using your actual cabinet measurements compared with the drawings... Once you have determined the scale they need to be made, print the drawings on a laser printer and glue them to the steel pieces - cut them out with a metal saw and put them together as shown... easy...


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"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife
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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:36 pm 
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Victor III
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Your right Curt :lol: my dad has a band saw but we have to fix it first. But I’m sure my college would let me use theirs... or I could still have the machinist help me cut them


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:36 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
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Would be best to cut those gears with a laser or with water jet. Does your college have either of those? Wire EDM would also be good, but expensive. You'll have lots of time to get that figured out I think. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:48 pm 
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Victor III
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UTK had all sorts of fancy tools haha. I’m sure they have something to cut the gears precisely.

I haven’t used them much yet, so I don’t remember what they have. But I’ll be there soon enough to find out :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:24 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 162
Location: St. Louis, Mo
Curt A wrote:
You are over thinking this project with 3D printing... Look at these patent drawings, they are simple construction, not rocket science. This is an easy assembly to make, providing that you have the tools to cut some metal pieces - mainly the gear pieces, which could be cut with a band saw or scroll saw with metal cutting blades. The scissor arms are standard flat metal pieces that are available at any steel supply place or maybe even Lowes/Home Depot... This total assembly could be made in a couple of hours in a home garage... Size the pattern by using your actual cabinet measurements compared with the drawings... Once you have determined the scale they need to be made, print the drawings on a laser printer and glue them to the steel pieces - cut them out with a metal saw and put them together as shown... easy...


I agree with Curt with one exception. It takes a little longer than a couple of hours.I made a set for a full round cabinet that I restored and used the opening mechanism from another full round cabinet for a pattern. I have enclosed drawings for the pieces that you will have to make. One geared piece is basically flipped upside down and hand riveted to the other one. That is how they achieve the saw-tooth pattern that you see. You have to make 4 of these pieces in total to get your 2 geared section. They are loosely screwed to the bottom of the cabinet through the ¼" hole shown on my pattern. Hopefully, you will still have the holes in the holes showing in the cabinet bottom. The arms are all put together with hand rivets(as opposed to pop rivets). I used the 90 degree piece from a Victrola lid lift and used them for the pieces that are screwed to the doors. You will see the thickness of each of the pieces shown on the drawing.
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Bill


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