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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:26 pm 
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Victor III
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 516
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Hello

I took Bill's diagrams to a local machinist to have the brass door arms manufactured and he declined because he is months behind in his project list.
What he did do was make a few suggestions, one of which was buy a sprocket from "Princess Auto Supplies" and cut it into 1/4s for the gearing. I bought the 5 inch sprocket which worked out perfectly.

I also purchased a brass plate and a friend with a carbide tip on his table saw blade helped me cut the pieces. Then I ground them smooth on a bench grinder and attached the pieces with bolts and rivets. Note: I wanted to buy 3/16ths thick brass but they gave me ¼ inch thick, but it worked ok in the end.

Good Luck

Bruce


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:45 pm 
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Victor III
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college collector
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:37 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Knoxville Tennessee
Awesome job Bruce!

Thanks for sharing how you did it!

David


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:00 pm 
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Victor III
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:37 pm
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Location: Knoxville Tennessee
My classes were cancelled today so I spent the morning working on the cabinet!

First off, the previous owner really did a number on this cabinet :lol: Not only by painting it with thick red paint and removing the doors and hardware. But they used artificial wood to do repairs!! The veneer was coming off on the door.... so instead of glue and clamps, they filled the gap with artificial wood. They broke the bottom of the column.... so again fix it with artificial wood! :roll: For some reason they only wanted one door to open, so their solution wasn’t to nail the door shut, and then fill the gap between the door and cabinet with more artificial wood! All this so say..... it wasn’t easy to un-do

So today I got the left door open, removed the inside shelf and column, and almost removed the ornate column on the front. From my assessment so far, it looks like the entire cabinet will need to be taken apart, fixed and then re-assembled :cry: This certainly isn’t gonna be an easy project :?

Bill, how does the dowel come out of the top of the cabinet?

Here’s some pictures from today!

Also some good news.... one original shelf remained in the cabinet. So at least I have one to make the rest!


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File comment: This is the where the foot under the right door should be. How does the rod come out?
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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:37 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 4902
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Just a suggestion: to repair the idiotic mess at the top of the column, use the bottom as a pattern for that portion. Trace the bottom profile and cut it out, round it with a router and glue it into place - after cutting the damaged part away from the top (try to cut a straight line, so it will be easier to match up your new piece). To join the new piece to the top, use a biscuit joiner and glue in biscuits to strengthen the repair... Also, try to find some aged oak from a trashed phono cabinet to make the replacement piece, which will help it blend in (don't use modern oak, since it doesn't have the same grain pattern and will stand out like a sore thumb). I hate it when people use crazy methods to try to "fix" things and you have to try to figure out how to undo them...

I bought an Edison Amberola 75 for $75 that someone dropped off of a truck. It broke one of the front legs completely off at the bottom of the cabinet. How did someone "fix" it? By using large nails and Elmers glue to try to fasten it back on... The legs on a "75" are dowelled on to the case from the factory and next to impossible to remove. So, I used a thin bladed Japanese type saw with no "kerf" to completely cut through the dowels and cut the leg off on both sides that were attached to the cabinet. It took a long time, but I finally got it removed. Then I got a mahogany leg from a junk generic phonograph and cut it with my band saw to the correct profile copied from the good leg and used a biscuit joiner to re-attach the leg. After the repair, it was as strong as it originally was and after finishing it, you couldn't tell that it had been replaced. So, just take your time with your cabinet and I'm sure it will turn out well...


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"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife
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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:43 pm 
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Victor III
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college collector
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:37 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Knoxville Tennessee
Thanks for the feedback curt!

By the way.... in the pictures the cabinet is standing upside down


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 4902
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
I think this is the sprocket that Bruce used: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/ ... -p8609554e
Each of the pieces have 7 teeth, so a 28 tooth sprocket is probably it...


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"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife
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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:36 am 
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Victor III
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college collector
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:37 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Knoxville Tennessee
The oak on this cabinet is simply stunning. Just a peak at what the finished product will look like!

I’m going to take it completely apart hopefully this weekend so I can strip the whole cabinet


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:43 am 
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Victor V
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 2194
Location: South Carolina
Wow, looks like it has some original stain left in it too...Careful with that one! Wouldn't it be neat if all you had to do was remove the paint, and then add a few coats of shellac or something?

Finding the hardware & making the door mechanism isn't looking easy but this is going to be a show-stopper when you are done.


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:33 pm 
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Victor III
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college collector
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:37 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Knoxville Tennessee
Here’s another update!

After a complete disassembly of the cabinet, one thing became very obvious. At some point in time the cabinet was completely taken apart. And the way they “fixed it” was a hell of a lot of nails :roll: The top and bottom had to have been off for the nails to put through the doors. Then they put a ton of nails into the bottom and top to hold it together. AND finally, which was the worst thing. They nailed the column and dowel together from the top of the cabinet..... it was almost impossible to remove. I’m so glad my dad helped me ;)

Both top pieces and the bottom will have to be carefully taken apart and reglued

Where can I get replacement sheets of veneer that would be big enough and correct for this cabinet? I’ll need a sheet for the top, and a couple sheets for between the top pieces and the bottom pieces

Now I gotta strip all this paint off :?


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 Post subject: Re: Herzog full barrel restoration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:59 pm 
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Victor V
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 2194
Location: South Carolina
http://www.veneer-factory-outlet.com/ti ... s-savings/. This should be the veneer. Quarter-sawn oak, right?

You will want the 3/64ths wood-on-wood instead of the paper-backed, with no adhesive. That, you will want to apply yourself.

Anyway, I have used the rift oak from here when I was making little kits to redo Amberola 30s. And it worked really well. Haven't tried the quartered oak. They ship quickly and considering it looks like an exact c20th piece of wood, you will definitely get your money's worth. It won't be cheap but if you were in something for "cheap" I don't think you'd be taking apart a Herzog.


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