The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:54 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:23 am 
Offline
Victor VI
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 3088
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Skihawx wrote:
Raphael wrote:
With respect to the gold trim, a few notes:

1. Victor's ads at the time showed a very bright gold finish. Another thread on this Forum a few years ago had more specific information and a copy of the color advert.

Raphael


This post is active because you asked for opinions.

Those are artists renditions on a 2" x 4" picture. You are mistaken if you believe any had that level of gold decoration.

I find it funny that I received comments from others on the forum, "I wish I hadn't seen the after pictures", but they would never post their opinions. I guess I am not that nice and not apologizing for it. It is nice that your historical perspective is controlled by your wife's opinion on what fit's in the living room. It is great that your living room is so perfect that a 100 year old Victrola can't look like it is 100 years old. I really think the owner can do what he wants. Seems like there is an over polished XX on e-Bay all the time. I don't see the need for others. I guess if we over restore all that exist no one will remember what they are supposed to look like.


How? What is "over- polished"? Honest questions. Have you ever seen a new one?
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500 (Discussion)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:47 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
floating down stream ...
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 747
Location: Made it, Ma ! Top of the world !
Before restoration it looked 'huggable', like a precious item to be treated with reverence and looked upon with wonder. From near and far, historically, visually breathtaking. A thousand stories to be imagined and enjoyed.

After restoration it looks new, expensive and a bit of a curiosity.

The gramophone is now silent. It speaks no more.

Those stories ? Those stories are for-ever lost. Never to return. :(
Sun turnin' 'round with graceful motion
We're setting off with soft explosion


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500 (Discussion)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:52 am 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:17 am
Posts: 445
Location: Victoria. Australia
I generally tend to only clean and service my machines.
A friend of mine was watching me vacuuming the inside of a gramophone case. He said “That case is probably filled with the DNA of all its previous owners and even the guys who made the machine”.
I nowadays empty the vacuum cleaner into a zip-lock bag and place it back in the case. Perhaps a bit over the top, I know.
For me, it’s not just the look and sound but also the prominence of the machine that matters.

I like what you have done with your VV-XX. Please keep a log of all the renovation, restoration or whatever with the machine so that the next owner knows exactly what has happened to the machine and when. All that information is the real exciting thing about collecting anything. Its history and if you are lucky a documented journey of the piece.

It’s rare to have proof such as receipts, pictures and letters but it’s a real thrill when you do.
So for me it’s a case of do whatever you want with your antiques but please document it and keep that with the antique. I usually jot all the known info on the machine, buying details etc. and then take loads of before and after pictures and state exactly what I have done and date everything. A log book if you wish with a DVDR of files.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500 (Discussion)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:37 am 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
So many audio formats, so little listening time!
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:49 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Wiltshire, UK
chunnybh wrote:
I generally tend to only clean and service my machines.
A friend of mine was watching me vacuuming the inside of a gramophone case. He said “That case is probably filled with the DNA of all its previous owners and even the guys who made the machine”.
I nowadays empty the vacuum cleaner into a zip-lock bag and place it back in the case. Perhaps a bit over the top, I know.
For me, it’s not just the look and sound but also the prominence of the machine that matters.

I like what you have done with your VV-XX. Please keep a log of all the renovation, restoration or whatever with the machine so that the next owner knows exactly what has happened to the machine and when. All that information is the real exciting thing about collecting anything. Its history and if you are lucky a documented journey of the piece.

It’s rare to have proof such as receipts, pictures and letters but it’s a real thrill when you do.
So for me it’s a case of do whatever you want with your antiques but please document it and keep that with the antique. I usually jot all the known info on the machine, buying details etc. and then take loads of before and after pictures and state exactly what I have done and date everything. A log book if you wish with a DVDR of files.



I personally think this makes a lot of sense, keeping a detailed log of what has been done to a machine to restore it is a very good idea and certainly an important part of its provenance when it eventually comes to be sold. The only thing I would not do would be to rely on a DVD-R. Those things are not a stable format for medium term storage let alone long term storage. Paper is by far the most durable format to use and will still be fine after a few hundred years - long after the data on any optical format has gone **poof**
I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.


Last edited by phonosandradios on Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:36 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 am
Posts: 921
Location: Davie, FL
Skihawx wrote:
It is nice that your historical perspective is controlled by your wife's opinion on what fit's in the living room. It is great that your living room is so perfect that a 100 year old Victrola can't look like it is 100 years old.


Those of us who live down on the ground, in the real world, have a different perspective than others such as yourself who seem to levitate and pass judgments. I started this discussion, to have just that, a discussion, not a snarky sermon from a sanctimonious know-it-all.

Another reason I started this discussion was to see if it is possible, in this age of “my way or the highway” thinking, to actually have a proper exchange of ideas. The answer is now obvious.

Raphael


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500 (Discussion)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:37 am 
Offline
Victor O
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:14 pm
Posts: 75
As an owner of one of these rare machines that came to me in original condition, and having seen examples of others VV-XX's, the original factory gold trim WAS MOST DEFINITELY NOT gold leaf. I therefore have serious concerns when gold leaf is applied and the machine is then marketed as "restored" or a "restoration" or "as new" which would imply somehow returning the machine to its original state. You have also recently offered a later made VV-XX which clearly had the gold leaf applied when early photos of this exact machine show no gold finish on the trim at all (buyers at the beginning of the last century had the option of purchasing with no gold finish at all on the carvings). These machines therefore are most accurately described as "re-finished", especially because modern materials and techniques make it difficult to duplicate the original hue and degree of degree of polish that came from the factory.

Past threads on this forum put the number of known surviving VV-XX's in the range of 35-40. This means that you have put your specific "mark" on at least 10% of the survivors--and having this piece and others marked as "sold", quite likely in pursuit of profit. I hope that you do not continue this practice. And I hope that those who have purchased these from you understand that these machines have been re-finished to your taste--NOT restored.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500 (Discussion)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:37 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 am
Posts: 921
Location: Davie, FL
Victor VII wrote:


Past threads on this forum put the number of known surviving VV-XX's in the range of 35-40. This means that you have put your specific "mark" on at least 10% of the survivors--


We have had this discussion before and you are wrong. I have had only two of five machines "restored" or whatever vernacular you may wish to use. Others came from renowned professionals, such as Bob Johnson (RIP). The one I recently had on eBay also was offered exactly as I acquired it.

If you took the time to read my previous post, there is no hope for profit on this, unless inflation kicks in and a loaf of bread costs $20. I didn't do it for resale, and I didn't do it for your enjoyment. I did it for me and my wife.

I know of at least two more of these XX's for sale and if there would be a profit in them, I'd be a buyer.

Raphael


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500 (Discussion)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:49 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Say to yourself I am so happy hurray!
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 12:50 pm
Posts: 904
Location: Brookfield, Illinois
poodling around wrote:
Before restoration it looked 'huggable', like a precious item to be treated with reverence and looked upon with wonder. From near and far, historically, visually breathtaking. A thousand stories to be imagined and enjoyed.

After restoration it looks new, expensive and a bit of a curiosity.

The gramophone is now silent. It speaks no more.

Those stories ? Those stories are for-ever lost. Never to return. :(


Having read through the entire thread to his point the quote above best describes my reaction. To each his own, but I'm definitely in the before camp. Making it look shiny and new looks just that. Like a replica. Keep it original as possible to maintain the character and history.
"You can't take the phonographs nor the money with you, but the contentment the phonographs bring may well make your life better, and happier lives make the world a better place."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500 (Discussion)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:13 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Honk, honk.
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:00 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Tennessee
There’s nothing wrong with cleaning up a machine, but then there’s going overboard.

I’m on the side of it’s your machine, so you do whatever you want. Though the original look in my opinion has so much character, showing its age I’d be proud to see.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SOLD! Victor VV-XX VTLA - $7500 (Discussion)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 516
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Rapheal

I do enjoy these discussions as it assists me in choosing the untouched vs clean vs partial repair vs restoration decision when I am facing my next project. I agree with you it is unfortunate when some commentators do choose the "sanctimonious" route when expressing their opinions as it detracts from the fun of the discussion.

Personally I tend to stop at the cleaning and repairing stage but have fully restored some machines and cabinets (even french polished a few cabinets) which were too far gone.
The real fun for me is restoring a broken machine to functioning like the day it left the factory, even though that on occasion means spending more money on replacement parts than I spent on acquiring the machine in the first place.

Be safe everyone

Bruce

PS. Remember happy wife = happy life, even if she wants you to chalk paint that Victrola?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Content © 2009-2020 by The Talking Machine Forum and the respective posters.
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.