Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

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antique1973
Victor IV
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Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:30 am
Personal Text: Victor Z, Victrola 4-3

Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by antique1973 »

I know this came up before but I could not find the old posts.

My first Victor 2 spring clean/replace was pretty simple, as it
had "C" shaped brackets that the bent ends hooked on when reinstalling
the springs. The one I did today is the slightly different iteration
of the same motor and to my surprise it had small arbor "studs" instead
and they were very pesky to deal with. Getting them off the studs was
not too bad, but getting them back on was quite impossible. I put some
primer grease in the barrels this time and it made the task that much
more difficult. I came to the conclusion that perhaps the spring
needed to be perfectly seated in the barrel horizontally for the
hole to catch on the stud. By this reasoning I (with much praying and hoping)
that I could install the springs and after winding the crank they should
naturally seat into place. I know, a big risk but it seemed like no other
way. With great fortune, a couple dozen cranks resulted in the "hooking"
of both springs and with much relief I did not have to start all over
again. So what I am getting at, is this the correct procedure for this
kind of arbor/stud system or should I have found a way to hook them at
the start of the spring re-installation? Thanks for any tips on this.

By the way, the lithium moly grease from Pep Boys is the way to go. Its
like soft butter and distributes through the springs readily. I will post
a pic of the stuff I used tomorrow.
Last edited by antique1973 on Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AZ*
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Re: Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by AZ* »

These springs are known as "pear end" or "pear hole end" since the hole that goes on the stud is shaped like a pear.

As you discovered, they are more difficult to deal with than the bent-end type.

What I usually do is bend the end of the spring that goes on the arbor with some long nose pliers so that the inner coil will be snug on the arbor and will have a better chance to catch.

It's been a while since I've done one, but I know the first time I did it on a 3 spring motor from a Victrola XVI, it was a struggle. Most of the motors I've done recently are the bent-end type. Easier to deal with. :)
Best regards ... AZ*

dennman6
Victor I
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Location: Indianapolis, U.S. of A.

Re: Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by dennman6 »

This causes some apprehension for me. I was considering tackling the four-spring motor on my Credenza. What type of 'hooking' should one expect to see on a 1926 model Credenza? The pear-shaped holes or the bent ends? "Having a better chance to catch" sounds like a certain amount of trial and error are involved. Postwar radio, TV, phono gear seems pretty straightforward-simply remove components & return to position after installing new capacitors, sockets, etc. One would think the acoustic era would have simpler methods.

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Shane
Victor II
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Re: Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by Shane »

I learned a tip from a local phonograph repairman who's been in the business for 35 years. He told me when beginning to install the spring, start with the outer end of the spring about a half turn AWAY from the stud on the outer edge of the spring barrel. Then begin to wind the spring in. After winding 8 or 10 more inches of the spring into the barrel, pull on the length of spring to rotate it inside the barrel, and you'll hear it "snap" into place onto the stud.

Hope that makes sense. It's hard to put it into words. It also helps to bend the outside end of the spring outwards a bit, so it will catch more readily, and not miss the stud.
Last edited by Shane on Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AZ*
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Re: Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by AZ* »

dennman6 wrote:What type of 'hooking' should one expect to see on a 1926 model Credenza? The pear-shaped holes or the bent ends?
Bent end. And as with most phono repairs, some trial and error are involved. :?
Best regards ... AZ*

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antique1973
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Re: Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by antique1973 »

AZ* wrote:These springs are known as "pear end" or "pear hole end" since the hole that goes on the stud is shaped like a pear.

As you discovered, they are more difficult to deal with than the bent-end type.

What I usually do is bend the end of the spring that goes on the arbor with some long nose pliers so that the inner coil will be snug on the arbor and will have a better chance to catch.

It's been a while since I've done one, but I know the first time I did it on a 3 spring motor from a Victrola XVI, it was a struggle. Most of the motors I've done recently are the bent-end type. Easier to deal with. :)

Thanks for the tip AZ. I noticed mine had a slight curve to them and this seemed to be important considering the curved nature of the barrel. The bent end type are definitely easier to deal with! I had an appointment to sell my machine the next day so it was nerve-racking to say the least. :shock:

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antique1973
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Re: Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by antique1973 »

Shane wrote:I learned a tip from a local phonograph repairman who's been in the business for 35 years. He told me when beginning to install the spring, start with the outer end of the spring about a half turn AWAY from the stud on the outer edge of the spring barrel. Then begin to wind the spring in. After winding 8 or 10 more inches of the spring into the barrel, pull on the length of spring to rotate it inside the barrel, and you'll hear it "snap" into place onto the stud.

Hope that makes sense. It's hard to put it into words. It also helps to bend the outside end of the spring outwards a bit, so it will catch more readily, and not miss the stud.

Thanks Shane, that does make sense and I will try it next time I run across these.
I tried a similar strategy but I was having a heck of a time keeping the bottom spring flush with the bottom of the barrel. It would be best to lock them in before putting everything back together and finding out they won't catch on their own.
By that point I was pretty much wiped out and the thought of having to start over
again was demoralizing for sure. In the end I got very lucky.

gramophoneshane
Victor VI
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Re: Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by gramophoneshane »

Not really lucky, because that's what "pear-eyed" springs are designed to do. There's actually very little chance that the outer end misses the barrel rivet once the whole spring is loaded (due to the other coils pressing the end firmly against the barrel wall) , unless the spring end is very badly bent out of shape and the hole section is (still) standing proud of the barrel wall, or if the rivet is worn and isn't getting a firm bite on the spring.
It's usually the centre coil that can be more of a problem. I guess you could always add the dogleg back in the end (as below) if you were worried it wont catch, but it's only happened to me twice in 32 years of doing many many motors. I'm always far more concerned about the centre coil being a good snug fit around the arbor, regardless of the type of end/s the spring has.
Just remember the more you bend and manipulate the metal, the greater the chance of the spring breaking at that section.
Attachments
NOS spring 001.JPG

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antique1973
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Re: Victor Spring Arbor/Catches

Post by antique1973 »

gramophoneshane wrote:Not really lucky, because that's what "pear-eyed" springs are designed to do. There's actually very little chance that the outer end misses the barrel rivet once the whole spring is loaded (due to the other coils pressing the end firmly against the barrel wall) , unless the spring end is very badly bent out of shape and the hole section is (still) standing proud of the barrel wall, or if the rivet is worn and isn't getting a firm bite on the spring.
It's usually the centre coil that can be more of a problem. I guess you could always add the dogleg back in the end (as below) if you were worried it wont catch, but it's only happened to me twice in 32 years of doing many many motors. I'm always far more concerned about the centre coil being a good snug fit around the arbor, regardless of the type of end/s the spring has.
Just remember the more you bend and manipulate the metal, the greater the chance of the spring breaking at that section.

Ah, ok so I guess I did the right thing after all. :) Thanks for the info and the picture also Shane. I will refer to that picture on the next one to gauge the proper bend on the ends.

I attached pics of the grease I used (from Pep Boys) if anyone is interested in
giving it a try. Its not pure Moly but its a lot cheaper too for those on a budget.
Attachments
09072010107[1].jpg
09072010108[1].jpg

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