Wondertone machine? Advice?

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Kryptosmaster1
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Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Kryptosmaster1 »

I looked at a crank phonograph today but unfortunately it’s in pieces. The cabinet is nice. I’m not 100% sure if all the parts are there. Can anyone point me to or share some information? If I did buy it, I’m not even sure how to reassemble it. Plus the worst part is there’s no soundboard! Are parts available for this? I’m sure I could cut a piece of wood for a new soundboard but I have no clue what holes to put in it, etc. I was actually thinking about swapping my Victrola guts into it but I’m sure they aren’t compatible. My victrola has broken legs.
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Curt A
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Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Curt A »

It's a nice looking quartersawn oak cabinet... That being said, if you want it to be "original", parts are not readily available for "off brand" machines. If that doesn't matter to you (it's not a rare, high end machine anyway) and you have to make a motor board and you want a working machine, why not use the Victrola parts you have and make a nice looking custom player. It would essentially be a Victrola in a Wondertone cabinet and you can always find Victrola parts... This is all based on getting the Wondertone cabinet and parts dirt cheap - don't pay more than it's worth to you to have a working machine, which essentially will end up having little in the way of value after it's put together...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
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Jerry B.
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Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Jerry B. »

I see your Wondertone as a project and there is nothing wrong with a project. But with any off brand project your chances of finding original replacement parts can be difficult. It's also true that many off brand machines were made using generic parts such as motors, tone arms, cranks, and other parts. So it is possible to see it through to completion but it's very important to assemble, repair, and complete your motor or find an identical replacement. It's a big minus checkmark to have multiple crank holes in the cabinet. You don't mention the asking price but it should be very low to consider it a worthwhile project. So it it's cheap (with a capital "C") and you are patient and enjoy projects you should consider it. You'll also need some woodworking skills to make and finish the oak motherboard to match the rest of the machine.

I would definitely not recommend you transferring Victor Victrola parts to an off brand cabinet. Many of us would call such a combination a "Frankenphone" and that's not a compliment. :shock:

Jerry Blais

Kryptosmaster1
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Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Kryptosmaster1 »

Im not afraid of a project. I just don’t know how to make a new soundboard (as in where all the cutouts and holes go) and I don’t know how all the parts go together. I wish someone had a manual or something I could look at. I don’t think I’d swap in the victrola parts although I had considered it briefly. I’m fairly sure almost everything is there to make it work though. I’m leaning heavily against purchasing it unless someone here can come up with some technical material for me. It’s a shame because it is in nice condition.
Jerry B. wrote:I see your Wondertone as a project and there is nothing wrong with a project. But with any off brand project your chances of finding original replacement parts can be difficult. It's also true that many off brand machines were made using generic parts such as motors, tone arms, cranks, and other parts. So it is possible to see it through to completion but it's very important to assemble, repair, and complete your motor or find an identical replacement. It's a big minus checkmark to have multiple crank holes in the cabinet. You don't mention the asking price but it should be very low to consider it a worthwhile project. So it it's cheap (with a capital "C") and you are patient and enjoy projects you should consider it. You'll also need some woodworking skills to make and finish the oak motherboard to match the rest of the machine.

I would definitely not recommend you transferring Victor Victrola parts to an off brand cabinet. Many of us would call such a combination a "Frankenphone" and that's not a compliment. :shock:

Jerry Blais

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Lucius1958
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Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Lucius1958 »

By the look of it, most of it is there, except for the motor board, the brake, and the external parts of the speed control. Do they have the crank as well?

Most of these off-brand machines used generic parts from Heinemann, Meisselbach, et al. Some research might turn up info from the suppliers' catalogs, which you could use to search for the missing parts. If the machine is cheap enough, and you have the time and energy, it might make an interesting project.

You can determine where the holes go on the motor board by measuring where the needle meets the spindle, and checking where the mounting bolts are in relation to that and the crank hole. Likewise, the brake and speed control would be determined by the turntable, and the speed lever underneath.

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Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Jerry B. »

I just don’t know how to make a new soundboard
If I were making a new motor board I would cut a piece of ¾" piece of oak plywood to fit the void. (What do others think of the thickness?) Next, I would try to remove the horn. With the horn out of the way you could hold the motor up against the new motor board and install the crank all the way into the machine. If the crank is level or nearly level you are almost there. Mark the location of the motor mounting screws and drill holes. The spindle may give you trouble because it sticks up so you might mark your board prior to installing the spindle. Other motor board assemblies like the brake will be easier to locate once the motor is in the correct position.

Jerry B.

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Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Jerry B. »

I like Bill's suggestion to use the tone arm with reproducer and a needle to help determine where the spindle comes up through the new motor board. The needle should touch the spindle on any machine of that era. So with the tone arm directly out towards the front of the cabinet mark where the needle touches the motor board. Finally cut a generous hole with a hole saw.

Jerry

Kryptosmaster1
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Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Kryptosmaster1 »

I just didn’t post all the photos I took. There are more parts and yes the crank is there too.
I’m going to contact them today and see what they’ll take to get rid of it.



Lucius1958 wrote:By the look of it, most of it is there, except for the motor board, the brake, and the external parts of the speed control. Do they have the crank as well?

Most of these off-brand machines used generic parts from Heinemann, Meisselbach, et al. Some research might turn up info from the suppliers' catalogs, which you could use to search for the missing parts. If the machine is cheap enough, and you have the time and energy, it might make an interesting project.

You can determine where the holes go on the motor board by measuring where the needle meets the spindle, and checking where the mounting bolts are in relation to that and the crank hole. Likewise, the brake and speed control would be determined by the turntable, and the speed lever underneath.

- Bill

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Curt A
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Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Curt A »

Jerry's assessment of Victrola parts in that machine is correct.... a Frankenphone and that's why I said it would be virtually worthless after putting it together that way. That might be considered as a last resort...

It would be far better to use correct parts, IF you can find them. The motor board is a reverse engineering task that can be done. I like the idea of using the existing tonearm as a guide to where the spindle should be. The spindle hole should be the first step in mounting the motor and you should use a 1"-1 ½" hole saw mounted in either a hand drill or preferably a drill press to do it.

Once that is done, you can lay the motor on the new motor board - the motor board should be oak side down if you are using oak veneer plywood, and then the mounting holes can be marked making sure the motor is in the correct orientation to the crank hole in the cabinet. It's not hard to figure out the brake mounting position and the hole for the speed control once the motor is mounted.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

Kryptosmaster1
Victor Jr
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Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:46 pm

Re: Wondertone machine? Advice?

Post by Kryptosmaster1 »

Well I ended up taking a chance on it. I talked them down to $30. I’ll probably need some help. I’ll start a different thread when I get to that point. Thanks.

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