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 Post subject: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:05 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:16 pm
Posts: 40
Hello Folks,

One of the projects I'm hoping to tackle over the winter is an early model Victor VV-IV I bought several months ago. As seen in the photos, it's stamped as a Type A, however it appears as if it used the stamped metal grille used on the Type M. It doesn't appear it ever had slats, and though it's hard to see in the photos, I don't think there's enough clearance between the horn opening and the spring barrel for slats. The "Victor Data Book" says the metal grille was discontinued around s/n 12000 or so. It also uses a brake I'm totally unfamiliar with. I welcome your thoughts. Thanks.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:56 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 4909
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Your Victrola VV-IV - Ser. #21981 A, is NOT an "early" model. It was made around 1916 and is apparently a "slatless" model that was made that way.

You don't show the type of reproducer that came with it... normally an Exhibition reproducer would be included at this time frame. VV-IVs came in several variations: steel grill and #15 or "O" reproducers on the early ones, then changed to wooden slats and an Exhibition reproducer, then changed to "slatless" models and then changed back to wooden slats.

The scissor brake is not uncommon...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:18 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:16 pm
Posts: 40
I must respectfully disagree, Curt for the following reasons:

1. The "slatless" machine of 1917 had an
internal horn and the motor is not
visible. Not the case with mine.
2. A 1917 model would not have used a
forward, flat shank crank as mine does.
3. The "slatless" model did not use the
#377 speed regulator.
4. The "slatless" model used the #2721
brake.
Lastly, the serial number isn't even close to coinciding with a 1917 model.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:36 pm 
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Victor IV
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Its all Fun
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:07 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: Birmingham, MI
Steve,

Let me share some data from mine, known to be all original, and you make what ever conclusions make sense to you.

Mine has a 4-digit serial number with no "A" after the model number.

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Mine has the same brake as yours.

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Mine has the same speed control as yours.

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My grill arrangement appears to be different than yours. The metal grill is sandwiched at the top between two oak pieces of wood. However, at the bottom, when you push in on the grill, it pushes in freely. In other words, there is nothing behind the bottom of the metal grill on the horizontal to support it, or attach it. In yours, the bottom of the metal grill would be captive against the horizontal wood trim Again - use the data as you will.

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Good luck on your restoration! Its great you are taking on one of these machines!!

Shawn


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:16 pm
Posts: 40
Thank you so much Shawn. The photos are greatly appreciated. One of the things I wasn't sure about was how the grille was attached to the cabinet. Thank's for clearing that up. Would it be possible to see some photos of the horn opening with the grille removed, as well as the back side of the grille?
BTW, I suspect your machine uses the same taper arm/support as mine.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:46 pm 
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Victor IV
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Its all Fun
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:07 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: Birmingham, MI
Steve,

Here you go. The grill doesn't come out easily, so I took a couple of shots of the inside.
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Yes, I have the same early tone arm arrangement.
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The early M top was not hinged. That came out with the "A" version - like your cabinet.

One thing to be aware of, the "M" version, with the metal grill, had a ¼" female crank. The "A" version is said to be supplied with a 5/16" female crank. If you are missing your crank, be sure you get the correct size for your machine.

If you are missing your crank, let me know. I may be able to help.

Good luck.

Shawn


Last edited by Shawn on Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:48 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 7396
Location: Albany, Oregon
The sixth photo down may give a clue. Above the hinge there is a spot where something was glued. At the bottom of the same photo there is a wedge shaped piece missing from the opening of the horn.


How did the earlier down pointing wooden grill mount? How did the metal grill mount?

Jerry B.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:10 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:16 pm
Posts: 40
Thanks for your response Jerry. Actually, the spot above the hinge is the result of a previous owner's attempt at making a new hole for a motorboard screw. The wedge shaped piece on the bottom isn't missing. It's just broken away from the rest of the wood panel.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:13 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:16 pm
Posts: 40
Thank you Shawn. It would appear I'm missing the grille and the wood slat that goes across the top of it. If this measurement's the same I think that may tie it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About An Early Victor VV-IV
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:11 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:16 pm
Posts: 40
Here's a few photos of a Type E VV-IV I'll be finishing up soon showing the slats from above. Perhaps someone has an original Type A and would provide some similar shots?


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