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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Victor Jr
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:39 pm
Posts: 26
do you know what kind of glue? Sorry for the next repeat post.


Last edited by Herderz on Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:39 pm 
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Victor Jr
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Do you know what kind of glue? I have horse hide glue which was used for veneer in that time period.


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:07 pm 
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Victor Jr
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The only stupid reason I ask is because I do not want the glue to soak through the felt and be seen on the top side, It could be just how to apply the glue.


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:58 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 4995
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Use 3M spray glue, it works great with no bleed through...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:44 pm 
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Victor III
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Honk, honk.
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:00 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Tennessee
Welcome to the forum, your machine is referred to as an off-brand in the hobby. In 1915 the major phonograph patents began to expire and everyone jumped into the phonograph market, and I mean everyone. From furniture manufactures, Piano companies to even a hearse maker. Between 1915-1925 there would be over 400 phonograph companies in the US alone, but a super majority would be made from supplier parts. That's where you'd make the cabinet but outsource the mechanical works to a supplier company.(Or even outsource the entire machine, you'll often see off-brands that look identical other than the decal.) Heineman was the king of suppliers and had bought out most of it's competition by 1922.

A Hundred of other machines used the same tonearm design like yours, so they're fairly easy to run across. From the cabinet design yours looks like a Nightingale, made by the H.B. Wolper & Co.( Assembling machines from 1918-1922) Though phonolamplighter cabinet looks very much the same, making me think this was an outsourced machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:22 pm 
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Victor O
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Say it With Music
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:12 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Portland, Oregon
Great comparison on the Nightingale! Both cabinets and grills are very similar to your unbranded model. The Wolper company did manufacture phonograph and radio cabinets for the trade, it is possible they could have made your cabinet too (even if it turns out to be a Cadillac).

The Nightingale used the Stephenson motor. Is there any evidence the motor in your cabinet has been replaced or swapped out? Extra or enlarged mounting holes?
As far as the tone arm on the Nightingale, it would have been a Scotford tone arm for earlier models, and the Blood tone arm for later models.

There are lots of advertisements for these tone arms in the Talking Machine World to compare with yours. search archive.org

Lots of bits of info will help solve the mystery, inquiring minds want to know.
Ed and Nancy


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:30 pm 
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Victor Jr
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Posts: 26
Thanks Curt A, the contact spray worked great and make the felt application very easy to manage.
Thanks Benjaman L for your input. I did know that it was a off brand and have seen many machines that were very close to what I have. Just small differences here and there. I know it is not worth much as compared to the big three but it is worth restoring to me and learning something new.
Thanks, phonolamplighter your post on the cadillac cabinet is almost exact but for the inside. I don't think that the mainboard or motor has been switch out. There are no witness marks as to modifications to the mainboard all the way down to the mounting screw flat washer indentions in the board are a perfect match. Also the governor brake lever mounting and shaft hole show no signs of modifications. The 4 mounting screws and holes from the mainboard to the inside of the cabinet are perfectly inline. I think you guys call the switch out a "frankophono or crapophone" in the clock world we call it a "marriage"
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The only thing I see that does not look right is the reproducer holder cup. What I have is not a cup and has been nailed down with 2 tacks.
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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:38 pm 
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Victor Jr
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One other question, pardon my ignorance, the pull knob on the winging crank side of the cabinet is a mute function right? It closes a trap door to the beginning of the horn. It is not volume control too?
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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:12 pm 
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Victor O
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Say it With Music
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:12 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Portland, Oregon
Your machine is looking GREAT! We have a fondness for the off-brands, the value is in the sweat-equity we invest in them.

That small cup on the motorboard is a needle rest and should have a thick felt disc in it to rest the needle and reproducer when changing records or needles or while the machine is at rest. You can fashion one with the same felt you used on the turntable, just use many layers, we have glued those together as they are stacked to get the correct thickness (even or just above the cup edge will suffice).

The side panel control is for volume or tone, basically just muffles the sound and sometimes makes it more pleasing, depending on the record.

Keep up the good work and let us all know if you find any more clues to the identity.

All the Best,
Ed and Nancy


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying this machine and info on it's restorati
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:05 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
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Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Your machine looks great and I too, have a great interest in generic, off brand machines. I recently restored one and it was a great experience sourcing and replacing the needed parts to get it back to life. Good luck on your project.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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