The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:37 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:41 pm 
Offline
Victor Monarch
User avatar
Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 4995
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Too much time on my hands = "Make Something"
I finally finished my Le Palmodian replica gramophone. The design worked out well as a variation from the original, since the original design required removing the violin to access the motor for service. My design allows the violin to be rotated and rolled out of the way to remove the motor board and motor, without the necessity of removing the violin. I didn't want a hinged motor board or one that was screwed down requiring a screwdriver to remove it. The motor board is removed by unscrewing four knurled finger screws that are attached to the case by steel, threaded inserts installed in the edge of the lower case. Once the screws and crank are removed, the motor board and motor lifts off the top of the case very easily.

One obstacle that needed to be addressed was the issue of excessive stylus pressure and drag caused by the weight of the violin body and the use of a brass reproducer attached to the bottom of the violin. Original Le Palmodian machines apparently used some type of needle chuck attached directly to the violin, but I was unable to find any picture of its construction, so I used a brass Cliftophone reproducer that was designed to play horizontally. The added weight of the brass reproducer added to the weight of the violin caused a fair amount of excess drag.

I was able to compensate for that and reduce the drag by adding a counter weight to the front scroll on the violin. I accomplished that by drilling the violin scroll and inserting a steel threaded insert. I then used a solid brass ball as the weight and a threaded screw as the "adjustable arm" to adjust the position either closer to or farther away from the front of the violin. This addition balances out the weight and reduces the drag to less than a conventional Victrola tonearm and reproducer, which has proven to work fine.

Since the case and design were done from scratch, this has been a learning experience of the necessary steps that had to be taken back in the era of acoustic machines to get from an idea to an actual, working machine. It made me appreciate the many design variations of all the different manufacturers that were in competition for a piece of the market during the heyday of talking machines... One small change in the design of a tonearm, reproducer, motor or other component, requires rethinking everything else to make a workable product.

Anyway, I now get to play this violin again...


Attachments:
Le Palmodian 1.png
Le Palmodian 1.png [ 3.38 MiB | Viewed 411 times ]
Le Palmodian 2.png
Le Palmodian 2.png [ 4.1 MiB | Viewed 411 times ]
Le Palmodian 3.png
Le Palmodian 3.png [ 3.14 MiB | Viewed 411 times ]
Le Palmodian 4.png
Le Palmodian 4.png [ 4.93 MiB | Viewed 411 times ]
Le Palmodian 5.png
Le Palmodian 5.png [ 2.87 MiB | Viewed 411 times ]
Le Palmodian 6.png
Le Palmodian 6.png [ 3.8 MiB | Viewed 411 times ]
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:40 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:01 pm
Posts: 847
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Very beautiful, Curt! I like it and appreciate you sharing this. Cheers, Russie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:44 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
college collector
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:37 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Knoxville Tennessee
Lovely job Curt!!! The case looks fantastic ;) Does the violin need to be tuned in order for it to sound good?

Can you post a video of it in action?

David


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:46 pm 
Online
Victor V
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 2462
Curt A wrote:
Too much time on my hands = "Make Something"
I finally finished my Le Palmodian replica gramophone. The design worked out well as a variation from the original, since the original design required removing the violin to access the motor for service. My design allows the violin to be rotated and rolled out of the way to remove the motor board and motor, without the necessity of removing the violin. I didn't want a hinged motor board or one that was screwed down requiring a screwdriver to remove it. The motor board is removed by unscrewing four knurled finger screws that are attached to the case by steel, threaded inserts installed in the edge of the lower case. Once the screws and crank are removed, the motor board and motor lifts off the top of the case very easily.

One obstacle that needed to be addressed was the issue of excessive stylus pressure and drag caused by the weight of the violin body and the use of a brass reproducer attached to the bottom of the violin. Original Le Palmodian machines apparently used some type of needle chuck attached directly to the violin, but I was unable to find any picture of its construction, so I used a brass Cliftophone reproducer that was designed to play horizontally. The added weight of the brass reproducer added to the weight of the violin caused a fair amount of excess drag.

I was able to compensate for that and reduce the drag by adding a counter weight to the front scroll on the violin. I accomplished that by drilling the violin scroll and inserting a steel threaded insert. I then used a solid brass ball as the weight and a threaded screw as the "adjustable arm" to adjust the position either closer to or farther away from the front of the violin. This addition balances out the weight and reduces the drag to less than a conventional Victrola tonearm and reproducer, which has proven to work fine.

Since the case and design were done from scratch, this has been a learning experience of the necessary steps that had to be taken back in the era of acoustic machines to get from an idea to an actual, working machine. It made me appreciate the many design variations of all the different manufacturers that were in competition for a piece of the market during the heyday of talking machines... One small change in the design of a tonearm, reproducer, motor or other component, requires rethinking everything else to make a workable product.

Anyway, I now get to play this violin again...

Can we hear it playing?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:48 pm 
Offline
Victor Monarch
User avatar
Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 4995
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Thanks for the nice comments... this project was on my mind for many years before attempting it.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:23 pm 
Offline
VTLA
User avatar
TMF Moderator
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 2787
Location: Delaware
That is one beautiful piece of engineering! Very well done. I would also be interested in hearing it play.

Thanks for sharing!
Andreas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:47 pm 
Offline
Victor Monarch
User avatar
Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 4995
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
If I can figure out how to post a video of it playing, I'll try... I used to have a website that I could upload videos to, but it was cancelled and I'm not a big fan of YouTube.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:59 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 1580
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif.
That does look great!

I thought I had posted photos of the original Palmodian I once owned, but perhaps not. Here are a few that show the unique design of the "reproducer." There is no diaphragm -- the body of the violin serves that purpose. The patent summary shows how it works. One end of the reproducer assembly is permanently fixed to the underside of the violin, the other end is adjustable through the top, with a knurled thumbscrew. Palmodian violins didn't have the usual F-shaped cutouts on the top of the violin -- instead there were two large holes, which were big enough to reach in to access the adjusting knob to increase or decrease the tension.

The last picture shows the rod that mounts the violin to the cabinet.

I apologize for the relatively poor quality of the photos. I took these a long time ago, when digital cameras were still fairly low-resolution.


Attachments:
palmodian-needle.jpg
palmodian-needle.jpg [ 108 KiB | Viewed 329 times ]
palmodian-adjustment.jpg
palmodian-adjustment.jpg [ 57.89 KiB | Viewed 329 times ]
palmodian-patent-info.jpg
palmodian-patent-info.jpg [ 343.73 KiB | Viewed 329 times ]
palmodian-mount.jpg
palmodian-mount.jpg [ 71.31 KiB | Viewed 329 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:07 pm 
Offline
Victor Monarch
User avatar
Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 4995
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Thanks, Rene... I was never able to find actual patent information on the Palmodian, so I based my construction on pictures of original and reproduction machines and then used what I had on hand to try to replicate it.

Looking at the original needle chuck, it would have been impossible for me to construct that arrangement along with the mounting post. So, thinking of the different parts I had on hand the Cliftophone reproducer and the Cliftophone tonearm swivel mount became the basis for the project, along with an unused spare violin.

All in all, it was rewarding and most importantly, it works... I pasted a paper label on the bottom of the case identifying it as a replica and me as the builder, so no mix ups will happen in the future.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


Last edited by Curt A on Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FINISHED - Le Palmodian Replica
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:12 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:03 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Dover, UK
Wonderful! I too am looking forward to hearing it - hopefully? Brilliant imaginative use of the Cliftophone soundbox.
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Django, edisonclassm and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Content © 2009-2020 by The Talking Machine Forum and the respective posters.
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.