1912 triple barrel motor speed issues

[Thatphonographguy]

Hi all. Back with some more problems. Bought an early version of the second restyled Victrola XVI. She's a big ol girl, made in 1912. I bought the machine a long time ago, and it's sat ever since. The guy I bought it from told me he had rebuilt the motor. He did. However, something had to have happened to it in the process. What it likes to do is run down whenever it wants, regardless of spring tension. In fact, it's worse the more tension is on the spring. It doesn't like to maintain any given speed either. And this is happening without playing a record. So I stripped it down, degreased everything, removed springs and cleaned barrels and springs. Repacked barrels and oiled everything requiring oil. It still does the same thing. I inspected all gears, all in great shape. Checked for bends in the crankshaft and governor shaft. No bends. Any idea what is causing all of this?

[Mr Grumpy]

Just a guess here but could the previous owner have installed a spring in the wrong direction when they worked on the motor?

[Thatphonographguy]

Possibly, but I don't believe so. That's because it will sometimes run decent. But all of a sudden run down. I could be wrong though. Is there any kind of diagram or anyone who might be willing to give me the info as to which direction each spring should be facing?

[travisgreyfox]

What kind of records are playing on it? Many have trouble playing the "softer" "newer" records on these old horses.


-Travis

[Thatphonographguy]

Regular 78s from the period. I can assure you that an electrically recorded record never touches the turntables of any acoustic machine in my collection.

[gramophone-georg]

Regular 78s from the period. I can assure you that an electrically recorded record never touches the turntables of any acoustic machine in my collection.

This is starting to sound like a governor spring issue.

[Skihawx]

Regular 78s from the period. I can assure you that an electrically recorded record never touches the turntables of any acoustic machine in my collection.

Good to hear! I am the same way. That is another good reason to have a lot of machines.

[JerryVan]

Look very carefully for wear on the spindle worm gear. Clean the worm well, then look at each tooth, especially in the center of the worm, where it meshes with the spring barrel gear, (i.e. worm wheel). You may see areas that have either worn flat, or in other words, they do not have the same form as the worm teeth above and below the center section, or they may have galling and grooves worn into them. Or, even just a generally rough area, with a sort of satin finish. Either condition really "puts on the brakes" in a Victor motor.

Look also at the worm wheel. Many years of use will wear down the teeth, but only the part of the tooth in contact with the worm gear. Not all of the tooth contacts the worm gear tooth. In other words, the worm tooth does not mesh such that it reaches all the way down to the very bottom of the worm wheel tooth space. If it did, it would mean there's no clearance, or backlash, both being necessary. That being said, between the worn & unworn part of the worm gear teeth, there can be a step. That step, when it becomes large enough, will drag and bind on the tip of the worm gear teeth and bring things to a halt.

If you don't want to read my overly wordy explanation again, here's the Cliff's notes version: Put in another spindle shaft and another worm wheel and see if that helps.

BTW, a bent spindle shaft can also be an issue as it brings the gear mesh repeatedly closer & further away, causing variation in speed, or even binding.

[Django]

I believe that the 1912 VV-XVI has an early form of speed indicator, (not the later, more visible type. The speed indicator can act like a brake. I would check that to see if it is working properly, (provided that it actually exists).

[Thatphonographguy]

Well, good news is that I found the problem. The shaft that runs directly through all three barrels is bent. I figure someone bent it when they removed the a pin that goes through the shaft on the ratchet end. It's bent bad enough that it is causing the double barrel, or the first and second spring, to bind on the shaft, making the motor stumble and eventually stop before all the tension is released. What I mean by double barrel, or the first and second spring, is that this 3 barrel motor has 1 singular barrel and 1 2 spring barrel. Now I don't know whether I should look for a different motor or just attempt to find a shaft.