Pathé diamond. type 16 questions

[Artiebressan]

I bid on a Pathé Diamond type 16 phonograph. It’s a table top model. I’d like to know about the different types of Pathé tone arms and sound boxes and figure out which one it has. It doesn’t look like a typical Pathé reproducer so I hope I didn’t make a mistake in bidding on it. Does anyone know where I can find pictures and info sboutPathes? The number on the I’d plate is 002867. And the reproducer is vertical and it’s on a rather straight arm. It also looks like it has a steel needle in it. Not so good? The YouTube of it playing sounds just great!
I just want to be able to play my Pathé records. I’ve got 3 VV IXs to play all my other records but there are so many awesome Pathé records I’d like to be able to play.
Does anybody know how I can find out about these machines. I can’t find the dethlefson book for sale anywhere.

[CarlosV]

The machine on the photos is a later model. The soundbox shown on it is for lateral cut records, as its orientation obviously shows. To play vertical cut records you will need the proper soundbox, or a hinged one that swivels between both orientations. The older models have arms with a slotted adapter, the later have a hole to fit a thumbscrew. The photos do not show which type of adapter this one has. There is no comprehensive reference documentation on Pathé machines.

[phonodesbois]

As CarlosV said, this is a late model with a reproducer for lateral records. It’s possible to install an adapter for sapphire records as shown on the pics below. I suppose you have the same lateral adapter than the one on the latest pic.

[Artiebressan]

Thank you for writing. It looks as though I may win this on eBay so I guess I will have to gear up with the proper anatomy to have it play vertical cut records.
Is the tone arm able to accommodate the different soundbox or will I have to find another of those also? And, the most basic of questions, where can I find these things and what exactly are they called?
And thank you both very much for writing. I appreciate it.

[phonodesbois]

Yes, the tone arm is compatible with both soundboxes.
I don’t know if there is a specific name for this adapter… When gramophone parts are listed on eBay, there is sometime an adaptor in a lot but it’s a matter of luck!
I might have some extra ones but I’m not sure.
I think the lateral reproducer on this Diamond 16 is a Pathé D130 (might contains pot metal!) .

[Curt A]

[drh]

I bid on a Pathé Diamond type 16 phonograph. It’s a table top model. I’d like to know about the different types of Pathé tone arms and sound boxes and figure out which one it has. It doesn’t look like a typical Pathé reproducer so I hope I didn’t make a mistake in bidding on it. Does anyone know where I can find pictures and info sboutPathes? The number on the I’d plate is 002867. And the reproducer is vertical and it’s on a rather straight arm. It also looks like it has a steel needle in it. Not so good? The YouTube of it playing sounds just great!
I just want to be able to play my Pathé records. I’ve got 3 VV IXs to play all my other records but there are so many awesome Pathé records I’d like to be able to play.
Does anybody know how I can find out about these machines. I can’t find the dethlefson book for sale anywhere.

I have a Diamond series machine, a "Diffusor" with big paper cone instead of a horn/reproducer (see my profile picture), and if yours is anything like mine it will have a wimpy little motor. It may be adequate, or it may not, and you do *not* want to do touch-up windings when playing a Pathé, as the stylus will skate merrily across those broad, shallow grooves if you look at it crooked. As a thought, try to find a vertical cut adapter for one of your VV IXs. They have strong motors and, fitted with an adapter and the appropriate sapphire ball stylus (never a steel needle for Pathé vertical cut records!), they should work well enough and likely will sound excellent. I have one on my Victor V, and for the most part it's been quite satisfactory. It has also worked well most of the time on a "Swissie" type machine that takes the same size reproducer; a video I made of the adapter in action on the latter is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wm5rjQ ... e=youtu.be

[Artiebressan]

Drh!
What a beautiful record. About as beautiful as you can get, I think. Thank you so much for posting it.
I’m working on getting an adaptor such as this for my vv IX. bidding—hoping to win.
I appreciate the thoughtful responses here on the forum-very grateful.
I have read about the “skating” problem if the weight isn’t just right.

[drh]

Thanks for the kind words! Considering that they were all dubbed from oversized wax cylinders, Pathé discs often sound far, far better than they have any right to. Some of them can develop positively ear-shattering volume, too (the one in the video isn't one of them, although it plays plenty loud).

A few other hints. First, another factor worth remembering when playing Pathé discs, whether on a spring machine or a modern turntable: try to ensure the platter is perfectly level to start. If a disc insists on skipping or skating, however, sometimes lifting one edge slightly can let gravity be your friend to tame the problem. Naturally, that's easier to accomplish with a modern turntable or table model spring machine than with a floor model upright! Second, you'll do best, with a spring machine, to be sure the spring is well cleaned and lubricated to ensure smooth unwinding; motor thumps and bumps can often set the sapphire ball skittering. Third, you'll need to be aware of playback speed. The etched label discs, which as far as I know are all center-start, were specified to run "from 90 to 100 RPM" but, like the one in my video, may vary from that not-too-helpful range; the paper label discs, which are conventional rim start, were specified to run at 80 RPM but again may vary.

Best of luck with your new machine when it arrives!

[Artiebressan]

Thank you so much for your invaluable information, drh!
Thankfully, I didn’t win that Pathé 16. I live near Boston in the States, and it is such a rare occurance that a good Pathé phonograph shows up anywhere near here (!) and the little 16 in France was inexpensive relatively speaking. As the bids went higher though, the weighty shipping costs seemed even weightier and The unknowns felt like they were really mounting — I felt a little like a Safire skating uncontrollably across a Pathé disque (heh heh). I consulted with Phonodesbois who weighed the pros and cons and some options forward and, thankfully, I was outbid for the little Pathé. Next logical step was to find a vertical cut adaptor (which you demonstrated to be really fantastic!) for my VV IXs. Phonodesbois found one in an instant on eBay and now I hope I win it!
Thank you for describing the different speeds between the center start etched labels and the rim start paper labels!! Again—invaluable info!