Victrola weak governor springs causing slow motor

[Jonsheff]

I have a 1914 Victrola motor I rebuilt from an XVI, i am having a problem with it running slow. I have narrowed it down to the governor. When i got the unit, the governor had been rigged with a piece of wire binding a spring to keep one of the weights from extending out. I am guessing that I am addressing an issue this unit had for a long time. to build up speed, it seems that the weights are swinging out to far at slower speed than necessary, has anyone else seen this? I have new springs on order from Walt and hope it corrects the problem.

this 1914 has the funky external speed needle and a strange speed linkage/assembly that connects it. I have not seen this on any other units, it must have been a prototype to the final speed indicator.

here are some photos

[VanEpsFan1914]

What's the serial number on this Victrola? I have an XIV dated to about November-December 1914 pretty conclusively by serial, paper license label, and series, and it has a large crescent speed indicator with "isinglass" window.

The open indicator looks more 1913-ish.

Anyway I would want to see some pictures of other Victrolas with the external speed needle because I do not think that ballpoint pen spring is accurate. On my 1914 model the needle on the tachometer is dampened out with a coil spring that looks for all the world like the mainspring out of an old-fashioned wristwatch, and that extension spring on yours may be putting more pressure on the friction disc that would take more for it to get up to speed.

And this isn't a collector's or an expert's guess or even a particularly well-informed one; just a regular old guess from a regular enthusiast. It is a very nice machine you are working on.

[oliver]

I have a XVI which is identical to yours, with the exposed speed indicator in the back of the turntable, also dating to 1914 (though not quite as nice as yours). It's a G series. I'll edit this post with the serial number when I get home.

If it's not too much of a problem, would it be possible to see a picture of your machine's motor board with the turntable removed? I'd like to see what the speed indicator needle looks like, as it is missing on mine. Would you also be able to indicate the length of the needle? Wondering if it's the same needle as those that are under glass windows.

Thank you.

[Jonsheff]

Here are some additional pics that show the serial number, the top without platter, I don't have a pic of it with its needle and plate installed. This Victrola was pretty beat up when i got it. Had to replicate the missing back panel.

[JerryVan]

What's the serial number on this Victrola? I have an XIV dated to about November-December 1914 pretty conclusively by serial, paper license label, and series, and it has a large crescent speed indicator with "isinglass" window.

The open indicator looks more 1913-ish.

Anyway I would want to see some pictures of other Victrolas with the external speed needle because I do not think that ballpoint pen spring is accurate. On my 1914 model the needle on the tachometer is dampened out with a coil spring that looks for all the world like the mainspring out of an old-fashioned wristwatch, and that extension spring on yours may be putting more pressure on the friction disc that would take more for it to get up to speed.

And this isn't a collector's or an expert's guess or even a particularly well-informed one; just a regular old guess from a regular enthusiast. It is a very nice machine you are working on.

I agree with Charles, that speed indicator spring looks too heavy. Try the motor with the spring completely removed, or easier yet, just push the indicator needle ahead to relieve pressure on the governor.

[Jonsheff]

What's the serial number on this Victrola? I have an XIV dated to about November-December 1914 pretty conclusively by serial, paper license label, and series, and it has a large crescent speed indicator with "isinglass" window.

The open indicator looks more 1913-ish.

Anyway I would want to see some pictures of other Victrolas with the external speed needle because I do not think that ballpoint pen spring is accurate. On my 1914 model the needle on the tachometer is dampened out with a coil spring that looks for all the world like the mainspring out of an old-fashioned wristwatch, and that extension spring on yours may be putting more pressure on the friction disc that would take more for it to get up to speed.

And this isn't a collector's or an expert's guess or even a particularly well-informed one; just a regular old guess from a regular enthusiast. It is a very nice machine you are working on.

You know, although the serial number lists it as 1914, I did suspect it to be 1913. The sticker inside was missing (I had to make one) so I dont know the exact date other than the serial number lookup. As for the spring, all the others I have worked on have the hair spring like a watch, this is the first I have seen with this type. I am pretty sure this is original to the machine but as you mentioned, it was putting drag on the friction wheel so I loosened it as much as possible to where it still retracts. My testing was done with the speed assembly removed and I am still having a problem with speed, with the governor removed, the springs have lots of power but it seems to be lost with the governor, also sounds like one of the weights occasionally hits the chassis even though it is not spinning at full speed. I think replacing the governor springs is a good place to start. The governor and main worm gear both have new ball bearings, the ends have been ground and polished and lubricated with synthetic grease with some synthetic oil. I have been using this process for some time and normally makes for a perfect running, quiet motor. This one seems to be more trouble. I really don't like the early motors before the burton, they are a real pain, lining up the bull gear with the worm gear, etc.

Here is my replica paper tag

[Skihawx]

If all three governor springs are the same it can put some side force on the shaft and make it run slow. I think I have one XVI with that same outside speed indicator. It was only used for a short time.

[Jonsheff]

If all three governor springs are the same it can put some side force on the shaft and make it run slow. I think I have one XVI with that same outside speed indicator. It was only used for a short time.

did you mean aren't the same? it did have a broken governor spring and i used one from a spare, it very well may be the issue or at least part of it. I have 3 new springs on the way so hopefully that will put an end to this problem. I do have some time, the buyer for this unit is in Wichita Falls TX and have requested a delay on shipment due to the weather problems they are having.

[Skihawx]

I have never had any luck replacing one spring. They definitely need to be replaced as a set.
When I read your post I was wondering if you replaced only one spring.

[oliver]

@Jonsheff Thank you for the pictures of your machine. Great work! Hope you will post more updates.

I just checked mine and so not see a ballpoint pen spring or a clock hairspring so we can reasonably assume it's incomplete