OPERA REPRODUCERS

[Raphael]

Edison Operas can use an “L” reproducer, or a “Diamond A”. Common knowledge seems to be that the L is for wax, and the A is for Blue Amberols.

Yet, when I play a Blue Amberol with an L, I cannot discern any less fidelity than with an A. I have asked many experts, and come up with as many opinions. My question is: why is the Diamond A so much more in demand than the A, when it is limited to just Blue Amberols?

Thanks,

Raphael

[JimN]

Raphael, I've always heard that Diamond reproducers (Like the Diamond A) were for Blue Amberols, because the diamonds would not wear as much from the hard plastic cylinders. I have no idea how much a sapphire would really wear from playing Blue Amberols. I assume many people play Blue Amberols with Model H reproducers without problems.

By the way, cylinders are Amberols (or Blue Amberols) with one "a", which is how it is spelled on the cylinder box. Machines are Amberolas, like Victrolas. I had that drilled into me when I first started collecting (grin). I am very curious WHY Edison used the two different spellings. Maybe someone knows.

Jim Nichol

[Raphael]

Yes, I understand the reason Diamond A's were made, but since they are actually less versatile, why do they command a premium?

Raphael

[PeterF]

They’re more advanced technologically, and sound better. The diamond wears less easily than the sapphire, the weight is heavier and thus the reproducer is louder, and the diaphragm is the laminated type like those of the Diamond Disc reproducer rather than the earlier metal ones on the L.

It might help if you compare a Model N with a Diamond B, which is a similar contrast.

Wax Amberols, essentially a failure, were only out there for a brief period. An L is necessary if you want to play them on your Opera or big Amberola, but it’s a real niche activity - folks either just don’t play wax amberols, or use some other machine in their collection to hear them.

Lots of people on here are afraid of them, thinking they’re too fragile to own or touch, much less play. But they can sound remarkably good. Blue Amberols are way more durable and plentiful and generally have better or more interesting content, but to each their own.

Pro tip: a Model L can easily be repurposed to safely play 2-minute wax on your big Amberola 1A, by switching the stylus bar from the 4-minute sapphire (like on an H) to one from a Model C. This allows a user of a 1A, missing the Model M 2/4 reproducer and owning the way more plentiful Diamond A to more fully utilize the machine. If you do this, be sure to label the L for safety’s sake.

P.S. I found the lovely Amberola shown below at a Ft Myers garage sale, many years ago.

[Valecnik]

Yet, when I play a Blue Amberol with an L, I cannot discern any less fidelity than with an A. I have asked many experts, and come up with as many opinions. My question is: why is the Diamond A so much more in demand than the A, when it is limited to just Blue Amberols?

Thanks,

Raphael

Well here's one more opinion. Not sure I'd classify it as "expert" though.

There is quite a difference but how dramatic it is depends somewhat on the recording.
- Early, clean loudly recorded cylinders with a broader dynamic range on the will sound much better with a diamond reproducer. With a typical march for example you'll hear much more of the middle and lower range instruments.
- On records with less dynamic range, violin solo without orchestral accompaniment, xylophone solo, for example, the difference is much less noticeable.
- On late acoustic and later electric recordings the difference can be really noticeable. An L, M, O, N, can be pushed beyond its limits. They will sound as loud, maybe even slightly louder than the sapphire reproducer but the Diamond A, B, C really do outperform the earlier ones, bringing out the middle and low range and reducing distortion of the highs in loud passages.

That being said, the L, M, O and N are really good quality and one could certainly enjoy playing an Opera or Amberola 1A, B, III with only an L.

[Raphael]

I understand all the technical reasons, and appreciate the comments so far, but I guess my original question was not phrased exactly as to what I was thinking.

In my experience, the collecting community is divided between machine and record enthusiasts. Most people collect phonographs and rarely play cylinders or disks. After all, if one wants “fidelity” the home stereo system is the way to go. Then there are the music collectors, who pride themselves in sourcing and acquiring every arcane bit of music imaginable.

I once bought a collection of over 100 phonographs, including Operas, Hexaphones, Victors, etc., and there was not a needle tin or cylinder stash to be found. Some of the Edisons came with one cylinder attached. The seller simply said “I never play these machines”. Period. When I asked him how the Eclipse (that I sold him previously) worked, he said “I’ve never even plugged it in”.

I have sold many dozens of Operas. I know some of the buyers will only play them a few times at the beginning, and then to show off occasionally to friends and family. So, why do they always demand a Diamond A?

As for me, I have been testing Amberols on several Operas prior to shipping recently and switching back and forth between reproducers in an effort to detect a difference. Damned if I can. But maybe these 73-year-old ears have seen better days.

Raphael

[JerryVan]

Raphael,

So, why do they always demand a Diamond A? As mentioned above, it's considered to be the best choice for general use, unless you have wax Ameberols. That said, I too have heard some beautiful sounding L's. It probably comes down to folks going along with the general consensus and just following what they've heard repeated, be it deserved or not. Perhaps too, many folks don't have the opportunity to hear both and to compare. If for no other reason than the L being more scarce than other options.

As for me, I have been testing Amberolas on several Operas prior to shipping recently and switching back and forth between reproducers in an effort to detect a difference. Damned if I can. But maybe these 73-year-old ears have seen better days. I believe either choice, when in fine condition, can sound excellent, but the A must have a certain edge in some passages where the L can't keep up. Maybe those occasions are rare however?

[drh]

...
P.S. I found the lovely Amberola shown below at a Ft Myers garage sale, many years ago.

Aha! An Edison Blue Amberola!

[PeterF]

More research is needed, of course, but it contained (loose, under the horn) an object that might be a significant clue to its origins: the second known example of the elusive and legendary Lenin-Tone reproducer.

(You can learn more about the Lenin-Tone, here: viewtopic.php?p=127454#p127454)

After all, Florida is extremely close to Cuba, so its path from Mother Russia to Ft Myers might’ve been an easy one if it passed through there.

One would expect it to be a Red Amberola, though, wouldn’t one?

[Raphael]

It would have been nice to keep this discussion going, but the last two posters obviously need to amuse themselves at the expense of others who might wish to contribute.

I will thus re-phrase my question:

Why would a less-versatile reproducer capable of ruining certain types of cylinders (the A) be more desirable than a more-versatile one (L), if they are both in tip-top shape? Is it simply the perceived improvement in fidelity on Amberols?


Raphael