I know that Standard Model A ICS machines had no holes drilled for a shaver. But I have a late model regular Standard A that has no shaver, and has a Model B type carriage that never was designed for one. The machine looks pretty much original to me. Does anyone know if some regular late Standard A machines were originally issued with a Model B type of carriage, and no shaver? The other possibility is that the carriage was changed at some point. (The machine had a Model C side arm reproducer on it when I got it.)
Thanks - Mike
Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
- MikeB
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
With that serial number, your New Style Model A probably had been shipped with a carrier arm with a shaver (or at least the boss for it). That serial number happened just after the lever lift gave way to the button lift.
Looking at everything else, there is nothing to suggest that the carrier arm was anything more than a replacement. That could have been any time after 1905 when the first Model Bs came out. None of my notes show anything consistent enough for me to say there was any early issuing of the later style carrier arm with the late model A machines. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen - just that I see no evidence.
As for ITC Model A Standards, I wouldn’t be too quick to say that the shavers were all inoperable. Certainly some of the late ones were, but more detailed study needs to happen to really answer that question. TMF member TomB has/had one of these later ones. Tom - did yours have the holes in the carrier arm boss for the shaver?
My knowledge of ITC and ICS Standards has been slowly growing over the years, but there is still much I don’t know.
In any case, I think you have a very nice Model A. I don’t know that I’d be in a big hurry to put a “correct” carrier arm on it. The shaver is pretty much for show only and the carrier arm you have blends well with the rest of the machine. Thanks for sharing it with us!
Martin
Looking at everything else, there is nothing to suggest that the carrier arm was anything more than a replacement. That could have been any time after 1905 when the first Model Bs came out. None of my notes show anything consistent enough for me to say there was any early issuing of the later style carrier arm with the late model A machines. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen - just that I see no evidence.
As for ITC Model A Standards, I wouldn’t be too quick to say that the shavers were all inoperable. Certainly some of the late ones were, but more detailed study needs to happen to really answer that question. TMF member TomB has/had one of these later ones. Tom - did yours have the holes in the carrier arm boss for the shaver?
My knowledge of ITC and ICS Standards has been slowly growing over the years, but there is still much I don’t know.
In any case, I think you have a very nice Model A. I don’t know that I’d be in a big hurry to put a “correct” carrier arm on it. The shaver is pretty much for show only and the carrier arm you have blends well with the rest of the machine. Thanks for sharing it with us!
Martin
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
Mike, I had a Model A Standard with a B carriage and, if I remember correctly, had a carriage rod with the timing marks. The castings at the end of the carriage rod were broken and cleverly repaired. It had obviously taken a serious fall and been expertly repaired and played flawlessly. The repair suggested it was done when the machine was current. I regret not having photos. When it came time to sell, it was a difficult sell. Long time collectors found the repair very interesting but didn't need another Standard. But new buyers wanted something without repairs. I suspect yours took a less serious fall. The B carriage is a little more convenient but that seems a less likely reason for the change.
Jerry B.
Jerry B.
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
My 1903 Standard A #87708 is without its shaver too. But mine is probably one where someone removed the shaver over it’s 118 years of life.
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
Yes, that's a Model A carriage that is made for a shaver. Are there holes drilled in it? If yes, then someone removed the shaver at some point. At least half of the Model A machines that I've seen have had the shavers removed, either in whole or in part.
AmberolaAndy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:29 pm My 1903 Standard A #87708 is without its shaver too. But mine is probably one where someone removed the shaver over it’s 118 years of life.
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
Martin I will break it out Monday and take some pics. Hopefully it will be Monday or Tuesday. The ICS tag is different on the front of mine. It was not called the International Correspondence School. If I remember correctly it did not holes for a shaver though. Edison made the carriage arm unique to this phonograph. The carriage would have had to have the groves in the front so the repeater would work. Maybe someone wanted a shaver and drilled the holes. This interests me now. Tom
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
Initially, I wasn't aware of there being anything labelled "International Textbook Company" (or ITC). I had seen a few examples of "International Correspondence School" (or ICS) tags on model C Standards, so I assumed that all the school standards were labeled that way. Very often ebay sellers omit a close up of the tag. After a few years, I realized that all of the tag close ups I had been seeing on the standard A machines were really ITC. I am now 90 percent convinced that the model A school standards would all be labeled ITC rather than ICS. This threw into doubt many of my pre - 2016 listings on the model A. I went back and changed the earlier listings to reflect that they could be ITC machines. I'm attaching the latest Standard Data sheet which has all of the changes.
Martin
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
I made the same mistake with my Model B: I listed it in the database as ICS, when it should be ITC.martinola wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:31 pmInitially, I wasn't aware of there being anything labelled "International Textbook Company" (or ITC). I had seen a few examples of "International Correspondence School" (or ICS) tags on model C Standards, so I assumed that all the school standards were labeled that way. Very often ebay sellers omit a close up of the tag. After a few years, I realized that all of the tag close ups I had been seeing on the standard A machines were really ITC. I am now 90 percent convinced that the model A school standards would all be labeled ITC rather than ICS. This threw into doubt many of my pre - 2016 listings on the model A. I went back and changed the earlier listings to reflect that they could be ITC machines. I'm attaching the latest Standard Data sheet which has all of the changes.
Martin
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
Here is some pics of my model A ICS machine. It is really a ITC label. The carriage does not have a hole for a shaver.
- MikeB
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Re: Edison Standard A Machines Without Shavers?
Thanks for posting. That machine is very much like mine, but yours has 2/4 added, which is cool. I started a related thread about this awhile back. It has pictures of my Model A ITC with the lack of holes in the shaver. (I think I called it in ICS because I didn't realize that there were different tag variations until recently.)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43292&hilit=ics
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43292&hilit=ics