Advice for a beginner.

[fiji65]

Hello everyone. Hopefully I've posted this in right place ?
I'm looking at getting started in vintage gramophones and recording equipment, I'm especially interested in the repair / restoration side of it with a view to starting a collection of early jazz and blues recordings.
This plan only falls down due to the fact I don't know how / where to get started !
I'd especially like some pointers on what would be a good way to start. Type or make of machine (ease of repair, parts supply etc) Sort of prices I could expect to pay, best places to buy from, thinking something which is essentially sound but just needs a bit of TLC and some basic tidying up, basically something suitable for an enthusiastic amateur !! I'm nice and handy and really keen to learn some new skills.
Sorry for rambling on, but any guidance would be welcome.

[audiophile102]

You have indeed come to the right place. In my opinion the best place to start is with Victor Victrolas. That's because there are so many survivors to choose from and there are plenty of parts available if something needs repair. You can begin exploring the Victor catalog of machines here. http://victor-victrola.com/ You can start shopping on all the usual sites like Facebook market place or Craig's list, but you can also place an ad in the Yankee Trader section of the forum. Explore the forums pages and ask all the questions you like. There is an awful lot of knowledge available from members of the forum. Take your time and find a machine that gets your attention, but also be aware that there is a big price difference between the rare and the abundant inventory of machines you might fancy. Welcome to the hobby.

[Jerry B.]

If you want a cylinder machine, buy one that is versatile and plays both two and four minute cylinders. A combination (2&4) Standard or Home would fill your needs. Many cylinders can be purchased for between $5 and $10. Prices start in the $300 range and go up.

If your primary interests are with disc records you can't go wrong with a Victor Victrola. Really nice examples can be found for $200 and up and sometimes less.

Don't forget the performance found with good portables. These fall out of my area of interest or expertise but I've enjoyed hearing them at shows and the performance is terrific.

Welcome to the hobby, Jerry B.

[Inigo]

Welcome! I would start with common machines, which are easy to repair and supply of parts is secured. Besides that, they were common because they weren't expensive, and they worked well. So many were produced, and so solid they are, that 100 years later they still are common and they're still working!
Talking about flat 78rpm records, (in not an expert in cylinders) I would ask first if you want a complete upright machine, or you want a tabletop or a suitcase portable. It depends on your space available and personal taste and circumstances. Of course, this is one input, but the other is what is available around your area (antique stores, thrift stores or a neighbor) , or if you don't mind to pay shipping costs, you can search in the forum (the BEST place) or on eBay /FB/Craigslist as suggested. But if you go there, post the photos herein and ASK BEFORE BIDDING OR BUYING! Here you'll get the best advice from this humble bunch of experts! There's also the possibility of attending one of the famous talking machine fairs!
Personally I would suggest one of the tabletop Victrolas of the IV/VI type, best with the latest double spring Burton type motors. These are virtually indestructible, simple, and sound very well with old type pre-1925 acoustic records. If you're more inclined to the later 1925-1945 jazz and swing records etc, an orthophonic portable or tabletop (or even a consolette) are the best suited for these records, although their sound system is slightly more complex and delicate. See what is available and Always ask herein first!

[Dischoard]

I would start off with one of the more common machines that you will love but also won't be a terrible loss to the community in case something goes terribly wrong

I picked up my first talking machine about 20 years ago whilst browsing an antique store with my father. It was a tabletop Columbia Grafonola which I still have but I was quickly turned on to the fantastic build and quality of those old Victor machines. My suggestion would be to keep an eye out for the more common Victor Victrola VV-X which many folks are looking to unload and often even come with a pre-curated record collection. I picked one up just a couple of months ago that I had seen an ad for on Craigslist. They were asking $100 and I offered $80. I used it to learn how to rebuild the spring motor and had a blast doing it. There's another one on FaceBook market place here that'll I'll probably pick up, price just dropped from $250 to $110 and I'll probably make the same/similar offer. I just hate to see a machine head to the dump, no matter how common.

Of course that machine is made for playing the acoustic recordings that were made pre-electric era (late 1925 the new electrics were coming out). You can pick up an Orthophonic Victor for small amounts of money these days as well and they will play the music recorded after 1925 very well. I picked up a Consolette from CraigsList for only $100 (after the price started at $200 then dropped to $125) and the flagship Credenza for $250 (though you can find those for anywhere between $150-$200... amazing considering they used to be $800-$1,000 machines!).

If you are looking to get into external horn machines or cylinder players you're looking at a bigger initial investment. I would start with the VV-X or similar first just to make sure you like it. Let us know how it goes!

[epigramophone]

Several suggestions have been made recommending Victor/Victrola machines, but where is our beginner friend located?
He uses the term gramophone, not phonograph, so my guess is that he may be located in the UK.

If that is the case I would suggest that a portable would be a good starter machine. Columbia and Decca are generally cheaper than HMV, and use Garrard motors which are reliable. Auctions and flea markets where you can try before you buy will soon get going again. The "sold" listings on eBay serve as a price guide, but you are buying blind unless the machine is within travelling distance to view.

As for records, early jazz and blues are highly sought after genres and prices reflect this. A good way to start a collection is to buy job lots locally and cheaply, keeping what you want and passing on what you don't.

[startgroove]

One of the best ways to learn the basics of collecting and restoring is to hook up with a collector or two in your area who has experience. If they are agreeable, they would mentor you and help you locate sources, machines and information. This site is a good place to start looking for fellow collectors, just ask.
I would not recommend buying every machine you find just because it seems like a good deal. The more exposure you get to the various machines out there before acquiring any, the more you will get a feel for what category appeals to you the most. In addition, you will likely learn what machines are not good investments, which ones are rare or desirable. Good luck hunting, and have the time of your life!

[hbick2]

If I were starting out, I would look for a Victor VV-XVI (or an XVII, an XVIII, or an XV-XX). These were the top of the line Victrolas. You can tell them by their triple gold plated parts. The reason I would start there is that it is a buyer's market right now. Most people selling Victrolas just want to get rid of them. They don't know the difference between an X and an XVI and shipping is prohibitive so they need to sell them locally. It's not unusual to find a top of the line Victrolas for the same price as a bottom of the line one. Most collectors already have all of the upright machines they can handle, so there is not much competition. There is a VE-XVII (an electric model) on eBay right now for $175. Also, wait until you find one in very good condition. If you're lucky, you might find one in oak or walnut.

Assuming you are in the US, start looking for something on Craigslist, FaceBook and eBay. You can specify the distance in miles from you on all three. If you buy one, ask here how to safely transport it by removing the tone are and probably the motor board.

If you buy one of the lower models, I'm afraid you will find something better very quickly. Then you will face the dilemma of having a lesser machine or two machines. Most collectors reach the point of having more machines than they have room. Then, when something really great comes along, they either have to pass on it or get rid of one of their machines. I know because I basically gave away a mint condition XX-XI because I ran out of room.

[need4art]

A couple more suggestions for our beginner-join the Antique Phonograph Society-there is a wealth of knowledge to be found in its wonderful website and in its quarterly publication. Attend a show that is put on by this group when the pandemic lifts. There are a couple of books-Look for the Dog by Baumbach, and the Complete Talking machine by Reiss that became my bible when I first started out.

By quality-common machine or not-buy the best you can afford. A machine in poor cosmetic condition may not perform worse than one that is in really nice condition, but one that is in really good condition is just nice to look at and if you have a spouse-get into the house. It will always sell faster and for more money.

Go slow-these machines have been around for a while and they will be around for years to come.

And oh yah-end your post with your name- people will get to know you faster.
Abe

[epigramophone]

......and please let us know your location. My advice assumed that you were located in the UK.

If so, consider joining the City of London Phonograph & Gramophone Society www.clpgs.org. Do not be misled by the title. The CLPGS has regional groups all over the UK who hold regular meetings, where you can talk to and learn from experienced collectors.

Roger.